Advice on removing CIFAS marker

star70

I wonder if anyone can help. I’ve found lots of useful information on these boards over the years and would appreciate some advice on my current situation. I’m afraid it’s a long one as I don’t want to miss out any details…

Background is that I work full-time in a fairly senior position in a university. For about two years, I’ve had a small hobby business making and selling hats in my spare time. I run the business through my personal account and in December last year I decided to open a business account to keep the money separate. We are not talking a lot of money at all as I don’t spend much time on it (max £2,000 in and out last year).

All my personal accounts are with bank ‘N’ but I opened a business account with bank ‘T’ in December 2014. In February this year I was the victim of an attempted fraud on that account which went like that this…

1. Someone contacted me by email asking if I sell hats, could they buy 20 and how much would postage be to an address in Plymouth. It was an odd request, but I replied saying yes to look at my website and let me know what they wanted.
2. They replied saying which style/colour they wanted, could they order 10 and could I give them details for payment. I still thought it was odd they wanted so many but I figured if they paid me I would send the hats.
3. I replied giving them my bank details for payment and said I would post them once they’d paid. I now know this is the crucial error but at the time I had no idea.
4. They replied a few weeks later saying they had made payment.
5. I checked my online banking and they had overpaid by £1,000 for a £300 order! The reference for the payment was odd: “PAY IN BOX”.
6. I emailed them straight away to say they’d overpaid and could they send me their bank details so I could refund. There was then a bit of back and forth where they essentially told me what I’d already told them, asked for a refund but didn’t provide their bank details. I then called them but the number they’d provided didn’t work.
7. I then called the bank. At this stage I’m worried that they will make some complaint about me that I’ve held their money. I asked the bank for details about the payment and who made it and if there was any way I could refund them because they are not giving me their details. The bank said it looked like whoever paid the money had actually gone into a branch and paid cash and that I shouldn’t worry – the money is in my account. They advised that I should continue to chase them for their details and once I have them I can make the refund.
8. After that call I posted out the hats.
9. A few days later I checked royal mail and see that the delivery has been refused and is on its way back to me.
10. I then check my online banking – the payment of £1300 has been reversed with the reference “unpaid cheque”.
11. I have by now googled enough to suspect that I’d been the victim of an attempted cheque overpayment fraud. I feel that I’ve dodged a bullet because I never made the refund and my product will be returned. I don’t at this stage consider that the cheque itself may be stolen, just that it has been stopped.
12. However, I am unhappy with the bank because they told me that it was cash in my account, not an unpaid cheque and I had posted the product on that information. I make a complaint, they pay me a small amount of compensation (£30 ish) and the case is closed. Or so I thought.
13. A few days later, they freeze my account and ask me to prove my entitlement to all the other monies in my account. Not the £1300 which of course isn’t in my account, but everything else.
14. Around the same time I get a letter saying that the cheque I paid in (I didn’t pay it in) has been stopped because it has been reported stolen. They include a photocopy of the cheque which I had never seen before but it is a business cheque of a company I’d never heard of and signed by a different name from the person I’d been communicating with.
15. I provide bank statements, payslips, paypal records, etsy records etc. in an attempt to convince bank T that I am entitled to the funds in my account.
16. Regardless they close my account and take my money. All of it.
17. I raise a formal complaint.
18. They take about 8 weeks to tell me that they’ve investigated and the bank has not made a mistake and keep my money.
19. I make a huge fuss on the phone to the case worker, accuse bank ‘T’ of theft, and they eventually say that they shouldn’t have taken my money and will return it. They don’t admit error, they just say that the delay in giving me my money was not unreasonable given the investigation they had to do.

I believed this was the end of it. I asked in my complaint whether the bank had reported the suspected fraud to the police or any external agencies. Their response is that they can’t give me that information but their terms and conditions state that they can close my account and do not have to give me a reason. Which is true.

Worried about my future credit I sign up to Experian in March 2015 and keep an eye on my credit report, noting that nothing has shown up under CIFAS.

Fast forward to October 2015, I have an offer accepted on a house and am applying for a joint mortgage with bank H. I have passed the ID and credit checks, get a mortgage offer and then the offer is paused because of “information in my credit report”. My mortgage broker isn’t given any details but advises me to issue a SAR to CIFAS. I send off the SAR this week and explain the above (in brief) to my broker. She says that it sounds as though this is the problem and the marker needs to be removed otherwise we will not get any mortgage and the purchase will fall through.

So here I am and need advice on how best to proceed. The SAR is in and will take some time to come back but I know that it is bank T that has added the marker, probably “misuse of facility” as nothing shows up on my Experian report. I called them yesterday and they said they couldn’t give me any information but that if they had added any markers it would be with CIFAS and I should find out from CIFAS. They also said that my complaint is closed and they will not look into it further.

I then called the Financial Ombudsman Service who said that I need to raise a new complaint with bank T as my initial one was about the closure of the account and not about the CIFAS marker. I am still holding out some hope of getting this resolved quickly and being able to continue with my house purchase.

I know that the best thing I can do is prove my innocence. However, the above is exactly what happened – I provided bank T with all the emails that went back and forth and an even fuller account with all details with exact dates, calls with the bank, my actions and post office receipts, statements etc. I don’t know how to prove that I was not complicit in the fraud, that I don’t know the person, that I didn’t steal the cheque etc.

On the CIFAS website, it says that in order to add a marker the bank should have evidence to demonstrate that the customer’s behaviour amounts to fraud. Unless someone has falsified something, they cannot possibly have such evidence. I have scoured the bank’s Ts&Cs and accept that by giving out my account details, I have breached their terms. But surely that is not fraud.

Any advice on how I can get bank T to accept they made a mistake in adding the marker and remove it?

Oh dear, this is so long! If you have read this far, thank you! I just wanted to include absolutely everything as I have read threads where key information trickles out slowly.

eskbanker

star70 wrote: »

Any advice on how I can get bank T to accept they made a mistake in adding the marker and remove it?

You might want to raise a SAR to bank T as well as CIFAS, specifically asking for the recording of the call at point 7 above along with everything else they have about you. Since the Data Protection Act is largely about the rights of individuals I don't know if the fact that it's a company account may get in the way, but it only costs (up to) a tenner to find out, so realistically nothing to lose, other than time of course....

star70

eskbanker wrote: »

You might want to raise a SAR to bank T as well as CIFAS, specifically asking for the recording of the call at point 7 above along with everything else they have about you. Since the Data Protection Act is largely about the rights of individuals I don't know if the fact that it's a company account may get in the way, but it only costs (up to) a tenner to find out, so realistically nothing to lose, other than time of course....

Thanks for the suggestion, I will do that.

I guess the content of that call may be enough to suggest that (on the balance of probabilities) it's unlikely I committed the fraud myself as I was asking them to look into the payment. Good idea, thanks!

Candyapple

In the meantime, have you also obtained a copy of your credit report from Equifax and CallCredit (Noddle) too?

Good luck.

lisa110rry

I feel for you and hope you get this sorted timeously. The bit that concerns me though is this part:

"I have scoured the bank’s Ts&Cs and accept that by giving out my account details, I have breached their terms. "

I have a standard "to whom it may concern" letter setting out my company's banking details to permit BACS payments by our clients, have I breached our banks's T&Cs?

star70

Candyapple wrote: »

In the meantime, have you also obtained a copy of your credit report from Equifax and CallCredit (Noddle) too?

Hi Candyapple, I hadn't but I just got my Equifax report which looks fine. No CIFAS marker on there. I am convinced this is one of the hidden markers (i.e. implying I've done something very wrong) that don't show up on the credit reports.

I spoke to Bank T earlier to try to get them to admit to adding the marker. They asked if I had contacted CIFAS and I said yes. They then asked what CIFAS had said and I said they'd told me Bank T had added the marker (which is not true, I haven't had the response from CIFAS yet). Anyway, when they asked for more specifics I said that I didn't have the letter to hand so they asked me to call back with the CIFAS details and then they'll re-open my complaint and investigate. So at least it's clear that this will take at least as long as it takes CIFAS to respond.

Does anyone know how long that typically is? I know they have 40 days, and on their website they say it's usually less than a week, but I wonder what the real life experience is.

star70

lisa110rry wrote: »

I feel for you and hope you get this sorted timeously. The bit that concerns me though is this part:

"I have scoured the bank’s Ts&Cs and accept that by giving out my account details, I have breached their terms. "

I have a standard "to whom it may concern" letter setting out my company's banking details to permit BACS payments by our clients, have I breached our banks's T&Cs?

Thank you and thanks for reading the hideously long post!

In the T&Cs it says "do not disclose your PIN or account details to anyone". So you probably have breached them, but then so has anyone who has ever asked someone to pay them by BACS.

My problem is that they wouldn't tell me which clause of the T&Cs they were relying on to close my account so I checked myself and that's the only one I can see I have breached. I don't think it's a serious breach but it has got me into a real mess. Given what's happened, I won't give them out again and I'd probably advise you the same way - if you want someone to pay you BACS verify their identity first. But that feels like ridiculous advice and I'm just super cautious after what's happened.

gunsandbanjos

Misuse of facility is a cat 06 marker and won't show up on any credit report you can obtain yourself.

chris_m

star70 wrote: »

In the T&Cs it says "do not disclose your PIN or account details to anyone". So you probably have breached them, but then so has anyone who has ever asked someone to pay them by BACS.

Or paid someone by cheque.

star70

Hi all,

Just thought I'd update on this issue which I'm pleased to say has now been resolved.

I sent off a SAR to CIFAS last week which hasn't yet come back so I don't know for sure what category marker was added. I also called Bank T last Thursday and told them a small lie that CIFAS had confirmed to me that they had added the marker. I didn't think that had worked but today they called me to say that they had re-opened my complaint after I called and confirm that they should never have added the CIFAS marker, they've removed it and offered me £250 compensation! I'm so relieved - my house purchase can now progress!

Don't know if this applied any pressure but Bank T will also have received a SAR from me yesterday asking for all details they hold on me including the transcripts or recordings of the calls I made during that time.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm so glad to say that if you are innocent and you're relentless, you can eventually get these unfair fraud markers removed!

Ed-1

star70 wrote: »

Hi all,

Just thought I'd update on this issue which I'm pleased to say has now been resolved.

I sent off a SAR to CIFAS last week which hasn't yet come back so I don't know for sure what category marker was added. I also called Bank T last Thursday and told them a small lie that CIFAS had confirmed to me that they had added the marker. I didn't think that had worked but today they called me to say that they had re-opened my complaint after I called and confirm that they should never have added the CIFAS marker, they've removed it and offered me £250 compensation! I'm so relieved - my house purchase can now progress!

Don't know if this applied any pressure but Bank T will also have received a SAR from me yesterday asking for all details they hold on me including the transcripts or recordings of the calls I made during that time.

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm so glad to say that if you are innocent and you're relentless, you can eventually get these unfair fraud markers removed!

Was Bank T Lloyds by any chance? My friend who was putting the same money in and out his Lloyds account each day to double his interest ended up with a ridiculous CIFAS marker essentially implying he was money laundering. After applying pressure to Lloyds he got the marker removed and £300 compo. Still closed his account though!