Do I stand a chance?

s100000

Hi I the RK have received the following letter from park direct (attached to this post). The driver parked the car at (see pics in link) and went to ... as they were trying to find bay parking that evening but losing their cool as all the bay parking spots were full up with people going to the night club. They didn't see the signs entering this car park and saw it was empty, on the side parked it was dark and a car was already parked next to mine so they assumed it was ok to park there (big mistake).

the RK has now received a letter from this company with two pictures which are 3 minutes apart. This happened late at night and the picture of the car looks as if it was taken by a man with a camera, which I know is notorious at this spot due to reading other peoples posts. The 2 pictures are front facing to the vehicle, they are unclear, show the cars lights off and you cant really see the cars numberplate as there was no flash ( camera man must have written down my numberplate).

Im quite furious as the car park was empty and it was very late at night..

Look forward to hearing your responses

Thank you.

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2im57qg&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i59.tinypic.com/2im57qg.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2gvmtyb&quot; target="_blank"><img src="http://i59.tinypic.com/2gvmtyb.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

s100000

how do I add pics?

The_Slithy_Tove

s100000 wrote: »

...which I know is notorious at this spot due to reading other peoples posts.

If you've been reading other posts about these low-life scammers, then surely you've seen how flimsy and borderline legal their operations is. Why, then, do you ask if you have a chance? Obviously you aren't going to pay them a single penny.

Now go and check out the NEWBIES sticky thread to see just what to do.

s100000

Hi yes I have read the thread and thank you for your reassurance, I have a reply here:

Hows this for an appeal?


Your ref: (Enter PCN number)
Dear PD,

Thank you very much for the random pictures of my car, as didn't have any you have saved me going to the hassle of taking some. Next time could you take some in daylight please?

Meanwhile I refute that any money is owed to yourselves

1/ The amount demanded is not a genuine pre-estimate loss (and is unconscionable under the circumstances) nor is it a contractual sum as you have not indicated how it could be contractually owed.

2/ You have no standing to demand any sum of money

3/ Your signage is inadequate to create a contract it is also not illuminated making a stranger to the site unaware you wished them to engage in a contract with yourselves, the driver did not see any signage before or after parking the car.

4. Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability.

5. I believe that the signs were not seen/are ambiguous and the predominant purpose is to deter so there is no contract to pay this charge, which is a penalty?

6. Signage.

If it is your case that a contract has been breached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs that you display and upon which you seek to evidence that a lawful and legally enforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the terms and conditions in a clear and legible manner. Please provide me with a diagram showing the locations and layout of those signs at the car park. Also provide evidence that the wording is in plain and intelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to a driver at the car park’s entry point.?

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.

Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

I require you to cancel the ticket or provide access to a means of resolution in substantive compliance with the alternative resolution of disputes regulations.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours Sincerely
S10000

Should I include parts 5 and 6? Again how do i upload pics of the pcn?

s100000

any advice???

ampersand

Don't send that, please, op.
#
Sarcasm is self-defeating, ineffectual and value-less. It also drops you to their level, which they'll recognise.
Stick with legal points as written.
Of course you're indignant, just as everyone who helps here was.
#
Stick to the 1st rebuttal lay-out which works, with accurate grammar and spelling.

Let's see again before you send anything.
#
Host your pics on a website like photobucket or tinypics.

Change hxxp to http here and someone will do the conversion.

pould

I agree with ampersand. Drop the sarcasm, it does you no favours. Stick to the law.

Hot_Bring

pould wrote: »

I agree with ampersand. Drop the sarcasm, it does you no favours. Stick to the law.

IMHO it somewhat depends upon your aims. If it is to get the ticket cancelled then yes, drop the sarcasm. If on the other hand you're trying to have some fun with the situation ( as I do when I get fake tickets ), be as sarcastic as you like.

s100000

Your ref: (Enter PCN number)
Dear PD,

As the keeper of the vehicle xxxxxx I am writing to you regarding the Parking Charge Notice xxxxx.
As the keeper, I refute that any money is owed to yourselves.

1) The amount demanded is not a genuine pre-estimate loss (and is unconscionable under the circumstances) nor is it a contractual sum as you have not indicated how it could be contractually owed. The £100, including the £60 discount charge asked for, far exceeds the cost to the landowner as the driver only stopped for 5 minutes. . The area was certainly quiet and no other vehicles were obstructed for the duration. Therefore the parking charge and the parking charge notice cannot be construed as anything but a punitive penalty

2) Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA so there can be no keeper liability. There is no Keeper Liability as Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 only applies to parking incidents, and by your own admission, your parking charge notice has been raised in relation to a Stopping/Waiting incident. Furthermore, by stating that Protection of Freedom Act 2012 applies in your paperwork means that you have incorrectly stated your legal position with regards to liability, and I am considering reporting this matter to Trading Standards.

3) Your signage is inadequate to create a contract it is also not illuminated making a stranger to the site unaware you wished them to engage in a contract with yourselves, the driver did not see any signage before or after parking the car. Furthermore, the Signage is incapable of being read in the dark – therefore there was no contract with driver.
The sign at the entrance to the car park is multi-coloured, non-reflective, unlit and on the floor of the car park. the photographic evidence provided cannot be corroborated as evidence that the driver breached any contract on that day.. The sign was not seen by the driver and would have been invisible in the dark

4) Covert ticketing operation not BPA CoP compliant.
It would appear that the 'parking attendant' used a handheld ordinary camera/phone to take photographs and there was no windscreen PCN issued so the driver had no idea of any contract nor any alleged breach. I do not believe that the person was wearing any kind of uniform or ID showing they are involved with 'parking enforcement' while the parking attendant proceeded to secretly take photos of the vehicle without making themselves known to the driver, as evidenced by the fact the images are all taken at a distance
The use of Automatic Number Plate Recognition for Notice to Keeper cases, is the only photographic evidence you can use according to the British Parking Associations Codes of practice and from the pictures raised on the parking charge notice, you can clearly see that the use of automatic number plate recognition is absent, furthermore a front and back view of the car is supposed to be used, suggesting bad practice on your part.

Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I will only appeal further if you offer POPLA, the only independent ADR with a scrutiny panel and trained Assessors. The 'IAS' offered by IPC firms will not be used, for well-documented reasons.

''Drop hands'' offer
The charge is baseless but I realise that you may have nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs for responding to your junk mail dressed up to mimic a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15 so this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days and I will not pursue you for my costs.


Breach of CCRs
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered nor expressly agreed. This 'contract' is cancelled and any obligations now end.

As the keeper, I require you to cancel the ticket or provide access to a means of resolution in substantive compliance with the alternative resolution of disputes regulations.

Proof of submission for this appeal has been kept and I look forward to your reply.


Yours Sincerely
S10000

Hows this? It will be 21 days tomorrow so I want to get this sent to them before Monday.

s100000

ampersand wrote: »

Don't send that, please, op.
#
Sarcasm is self-defeating, ineffectual and value-less. It also drops you to their level, which they'll recognise.
Stick with legal points as written.
Of course you're indignant, just as everyone who helps here was.
#
Stick to the 1st rebuttal lay-out which works, with accurate grammar and spelling.

Let's see again before you send anything.
#
Host your pics on a website like photobucket or tinypics.

Change hxxp to http here and someone will do the conversion.

pics added thank you.

Is there anything else I can include in the appeal to park direct?

ampersand

Tweaking it now, op - put kettle on :-)