Warning; October 2015; Increasing ebay trader fraud

RFW

Sunshine_Superman wrote: »

And would you classify advertising free postage only then to include it in the total buyers costs?

Would you say that is honest?

What does this mean? Are you saying seller lists postage as £0 and then adds an amount to an invoice to cover postage? Or just that sellers list postage as free but actually pay for it and pass the cost on to the buyer (more commonly known as "business"!)

It's actually Ebay who use the term "free", no one anywhere gets free postage, maybe the Queen but I'm not even sure she's got an Ebay account.

Flyonthewall

Sunshine_Superman wrote: »

It would be inappropriate to discusss on here at this current time either the individual sellers under investigation or the particular accounts involved. There does however At first sight appear to be a surprising lack of immediate auction transparency on the ebay website.

As you say that it is usually obvious before placing a bid if there is illegal activity, perhaps you could clarify this in further detail?

Well sometimes descriptions make you think the seller is expecting a certain price. So they'll state the RRP (hoping people bid high thinking it's worth a lot), they'll state what they paid (hint, I want my money back as much as possible), they'll state a buy price even though it's an auction only (maybe they relisted and had a buy price before, but still shows what they were expecting) or something along them lines.

If they're expecting a certain price they may bid you up, they may just cancel if you win the item at a low price or some will claim to send it, you claim INR and they just refund as they never actually sent it. Not all illegal, but something to be aware of.

Course, not all sellers doing that will be bad, but better to be prepared and not assume it's a guaranteed thing if you win.

You can click to see the bid and view that buyers bid history. It tells you if they've been retracting bids or are bidding on only that sellers items. Some sellers will place a bid first so any bids after will automatically be pushed up.

Others bid after. If someone else has already bid then the seller will have bid after so you can check. Otherwise, you'll see after placing the first bid unless you check their other auctions for signs of that happening. So if you already bid then you obviously don't want to keep bidding higher unless you're prepared to pay far more. Also, never put in a maximum bid of more than you're willing to pay.

Sometimes there are comments or hints in the feedback as well. Sometimes lack of feedback can be a giveaway too (sold items, no feedback given, same buyer) as they don't all leave feedback for themselves. Plus relisted sold items (this is more obvious with some items than others as some sellers may have a few of the same thing, of course).

Sunshine_Superman

That depends entirely on your own personal definition of 'business' doesnt it.

Some business need investigation, some need avoiding but thank you for clarifying how you inflate your sales charges to cover your misleading advertising.

Of course when the new business taxation rates apply to ebay sellers i predict suddenly the cry will be 'but we are private sellers', and as you ask, no I do not consider it honest in any way to advertise any free postage service only to then inclusively charge for that service in the overall amount without making that clear in the ebay listing.

But as you have said, ebay buyers have to expect this.

RFW

Sunshine_Superman wrote: »

I do not consider it honest in any way to advertise any free postage service only to then inclusively charge for that service in the overall amount without making that clear in the ebay listing.

I'm trying not to be rude but that really is the most ridiculous statement I've seen on here in a long time.

"Free" is a marketing word, it's largely becoming standard for online sellers to have "free" as a standard postage.

If you're a non Prime Amazon customer if you spend over £20 you don't pay for postage, Amazon tell you it is then free. Now here's something you may not know, no matter what service they use, Amazon will be paying someone to post it. Also, they will be doing their best to make a profit on the overall purchase.

Is it also dishonest in your world for a seller to pay £5 for something and sell it for £10?

Flyonthewall

Sunshine_Superman wrote: »

And would you classify advertising free postage only then to include it in the total buyers costs?

Would you say that is honest?

That's how selling items works. Sellers work out the costs to them and account for them in the price of the items.

We all know sellers have costs. Not just postage, but fees. Possibly storage and other costs too.

Even if the seller does charge postage it may not be the exact amount it actually costs them.

In the end, whether they state postage costs or put it in one, the total cost to you is the same, you know they've had costs that are included in the price you paid plus a bit extra and it's not like it has an effect on you or the item.

It's not like they're trying to hide it, it's very common knowledge.

When I sell I list with free P&P. I don't do it to scam or be dishonest. I do it because even though I always used to charge exact postage costs some people will think that cost is too high and that can have a negative effect on feedback or put people off buying. So now I know the costs to me, how much I'm getting and have no worries about low stars/negatives over P&P and the buyer has still paid the same price either way. I personally don't state any costs regarding postage, it's ebay that does that. All I do is list at the price I'm willing to sell at. If anyone asked I'd tell them postage costs are included in that price as postage costs me money. Nobody asks though because it's obvious I'm going to have to pay postage costs.

Flyonthewall

Sunshine_Superman wrote: »

That depends entirely on your own personal definition of 'business' doesnt it.

Some business need investigation, some need avoiding but thank you for clarifying how you inflate your sales charges to cover your misleading advertising.

Of course when the new business taxation rates apply to ebay sellers i predict suddenly the cry will be 'but we are private sellers', and as you ask, no I do not consider it honest in any way to advertise any free postage service only to then inclusively charge for that service in the overall amount without making that clear in the ebay listing.

But as you have said, ebay buyers have to expect this.

I am a private seller. I do offer free P&P. It's certainly not to mislead people because why would I want to mislead anyone, I'm just trying to get rid of some personal items. It's not to gain profit because I'm not a business.

I'm curious though what you expect business sellers to do. Should they all charge the exact P&P it costs them? Should they state the amount in fees they are paying and any other costs so when you're paying for them in the item cost you don't feel cheated or mislead?

Maybe they should also state how much the item cost them to buy. Afterall, you may feel mislead or cheated if they're making a lot of profit.

All shops can start putting posters up around their stores letting you know how much the cost of electric is and what their other costs are so that when you do your shopping you're not being mislead into thinking you're getting free lighting as you walk around the place.

soolin

Sunshine_Superman wrote: »

That depends entirely on your own personal definition of 'business' doesnt it.

Some business need investigation, some need avoiding but thank you for clarifying how you inflate your sales charges to cover your misleading advertising.

Of course when the new business taxation rates apply to ebay sellers i predict suddenly the cry will be 'but we are private sellers', and as you ask, no I do not consider it honest in any way to advertise any free postage service only to then inclusively charge for that service in the overall amount without making that clear in the ebay listing.

But as you have said, ebay buyers have to expect this.

I do enjoy a good debate but seriously, buyers who charge postage seperately are dishonest and those that include it in their item price as show it as 'free' are also dishonest. I am very interested to hear where you think postage should be charged as frankly you are not making much sense.

Flyonthewall

RFW wrote: »

I'm trying not to be rude but that really is the most ridiculous statement I've seen on here in a long time.

"Free" is a marketing word, it's largely becoming standard for online sellers to have "free" as a standard postage.

If you're a non Prime Amazon customer if you spend over £20 you don't pay for postage, Amazon tell you it is then free. Now here's something you may not know, no matter what service they use, Amazon will be paying someone to post it. Also, they will be doing their best to make a profit on the overall purchase.

Is it also dishonest in your world for a seller to pay £5 for something and sell it for £10?

Amazon Prime costs money so you're actually paying for postage by paying for that even though it states free P&P for Prime users.

So either way you're either paying for it whether it's through the items bought or by paying for a service and in both cases they're paying for postage.

How dare they :eek:

campdave

Sunshine_Superman wrote: »

Of course when the new business taxation rates apply to ebay sellers i predict suddenly the cry will be 'but we are private sellers', and as you ask, no I do not consider it honest in any way to advertise any free postage service only to then inclusively charge for that service in the overall amount without making that clear in the ebay listing.

You're an idiot.

campdave

I couldn't give a kipper.

I've not come across such half-baked nonsense in some time.