5p bag charge - your views

System

I agree the raw meat is a grey area with poor wording by Defra.

If individual consumers and organisations like if there something like the British Meat Board complain to Defra, then they may amend the wording clearer.

I was told, meat packaged in a factory is classed as 'wrapped'.

A._Badger

ScarletMarble wrote: »

I agree the raw meat is a grey area with poor wording by Defra.

If individual consumers and organisations like if there something like the British Meat Board complain to Defra, then they may amend the wording clearer.

I was told, meat packaged in a factory is classed as 'wrapped'.

Not in Morrisons it isn't. I've complained several times about pieces of meat dripping with blood and, by extension, salmonella (or worse). Morrisons' staff just shrug and say 'it comes in like that'.

I wonder what the 'environmental impact' of a near-fatal case of c.diffficle is?

VeGGie-STyLe

Zandoni wrote: »

Which supermarket was that?

Sorry, I wasn't speaking from my own experience, only from what I had read in the guidelines. I assumed that it would be happening in ALL stores.

Is it just for raw meat/fish that you get from the butcher/fishmonger counter, where it doesn't come in a sealed container?

Bay

Nick_C wrote: »

I have used the cotton bags, which are fine for a few lightweight items, but the ones I have don't hold much and would wear out quickly if I subjected them to the kind of use my bags for life get.

The hessian bags are fine if you driving to the supermarket (not very environmentally friendly) or possibly if you have an enormous handbag or rucksack. If you are popping into the supermarket on the way home from work, a thin "longer life" plastic bag can be carried in your trouser pocket. A hessian one (or a heavy duty plastic one) will not.

What if you're not wearing trousers?

marleyboy

So long as your wearing clean underwear...

Nick_C

ScarletMarble wrote: »

I agree the raw meat is a grey area with poor wording by Defra.

If individual consumers and organisations like if there something like the British Meat Board complain to Defra, then they may amend the wording clearer.

I was told, meat packaged in a factory is classed as 'wrapped'.

I think DEFRA's guidance is quite clear. "You don’t charge for plastic bags that are ... for uncooked meat, poultry and their products"

The legislation is also surprisingly clear. "The following are excluded bags ... A bag intended to be used solely to contain uncooked fish or fish products, meat or meat products or poultry or poultry products".

If your wrapped meat from the self service fridges is leaking (as often happens), it is perfectly legitimate for the shop to let you put it in a carrier FOC. This often happens at the tills, and I hope it will continue to happen. I don't want the juices from an uncooked chicken leaking over other food. That would be a serious health risk.

EDIT: As far as the legislation and guidance are concerned, it is irrelevant whether or not the meat is wrapped. The only thing that matters is whether or not the meat is cooked.

Nick_C

Stompa wrote: »

Just a thought, but are plastic bin liners generally degradeable? I can't see any mention of it on the ones I normally use. If not, then I guess I'll be replacing degradeable carrier bags with non-degradeable bin liners in my rubbish. That sort of sounds like a retrograde step to me.

Plastic bin bags are not biodegradable. Most supermarket carrier bags are also not biodegradable. It's been estimated that plastic bags could take 1000 years to decompose in landfill.

Biodegradable bags are usually made from cornstarch. They are ideal for waste that is going to be composted. For example, food waste collections. Some councils use biodegradable bags for collecting autumn leaf-fall. Biodegradable bags have a fairly short shelf life. I've known them to degrade to the point where they are not fit to use after being stored for two years.

Europe is trying to reduce the amount of biodegradable waste that is sent to landfill. This is because when biodegradable waste decomposes in landfill it does so in the absence of oxygen. Anaerobic decomposition produces methane instead of CO2. Methane emissions are thought to be four times as damaging as CO2 emissions in terms of the greenhouse effect.

So if you are sending waste to landfill, plastic bags are much better than biodegradable, as they won't produce methane.

If you are sending waste to be incinerated, then it doesn't matter whether you use plastic or biodegradable, but plastic bags are much cheaper and have an indefinite shelf life.

If you are sending waste to be composted - food or garden waste - it should be in paper or cornstarch bags, not plastic.

So if you've been using biodegradable bags for your rubbish up to now, switching to plastic is probably a good thing.

Biodegradable supermarket carrier bags were never a good idea. They were misconceived and fortunately didn't really catch on. Apart from the methane emissions in landfill, they also made attempts to recycle supermarket carrier bags problematic, as many people don't know or notice the difference between the cornstarch bags and plastic bags. Biodegradable bags contaminate the plastics recycling stream and just make the job of recycling more difficult.

Smidster

So we are now a few days in and so far the world doesn't seem to have fallen apart.

That being said...

1) I do tend to think if you are going to have a charge it should apply throughout as there is scope for confusion.

2) I will be one of those using more plastic due to having to use bin liners although I accept this will be more than offset elsewhere.

3) I do have one more personal frustration and that is related to store security. For whatever reason I am one of those people who is always followed by these people (drives me up the wall and I wish I knew why as I detest being accused of being that kind of person) This isn't helped by walking out with stuff in my hands as if only walking short distance I will just carry stuff instead of taking own bags. Obviously I know I am always in the right but annoying none the less.

Guess we will see what happens in the longer term.

Big_Graeme

dastep wrote: »

I don't object to getting rid of plastic bags since I always bring and fill up my own bag for life.

What I object to is with home deliveries and the angry drivers who are now upset about having to hand each individual item to the customer at the door but also be expected to complete their rounds as usual.

Waitress always takes the order into the kitchen for me so there's not a potential problem with attitude.

The other day, the ASDA driver just about threw all the groceries at me as he raced to clear out his plastic crates with my order leaving many large items inside my door as I raced to bag everything up at the door.

There has to be a better solution?

Perhaps the government could build a massive underground vacuum grocery delivery system into everyone's house and all the groceries could be fired into kitchens all over Britain?

The solution would be to charge a deposit for those totes and refund when you returned them.

System

Nick_C wrote: »

Plastic bin bags are not biodegradable. Most supermarket carrier bags are also not biodegradable. It's been estimated that plastic bags could take 1000 years to decompose in landfill.

Do you remember those white Co-op bags from a few years ago?

The pest control officer that tackled the wasps nest at their home told me this story about a couple that thought they had mice in their loft as bits of white plastic all over the loft.

Turns out it was the Co-op bags they wrapped picture frames and a couple of Christmas things disintegrated in 3-4 months. As it was around Easter time that this happened.