New double glazing, road noise has increased

chickenpie81

Yes, they did replace the internal sills. At the time of fitting there was wallpaper on the walls and so I didn't see the mess at this time. A manager called and they are to redo the sealant, the wallpaper was on when he visited also.
Unfortunately I had all of the windows in the house replaced and so have nothing to compared it too.
When the fitters return they are going to take the internal white strips away from the wall and fill the wall cavity with rock wool to try and reduce the noise. I dont know how this is going to help as that cavity has always been there and the noise wasnt present with the last windows.
What other pictures would help for you to see the standard of work? Anglian are returning next week so want to be armed with as much info as possible.
Thanks all.

victor2

chickenpie81 wrote: »

Just thinking I'm not sure if the fitters installed the glass in each window in one go (i.e. a sealed unit of two panes) or each pane individually. There is no way they would be able to get Argon gas in once the glass is in the window, is there? Is there a way to tell which way they were fitted?

The actual glass units are made and sealed in the factory. There is no way the fitters would fit each sheet of glass separately - not even Anglian!

Furts

chickenpie81 wrote: »

When the fitters return they are going to take the internal white strips away from the wall and fill the wall cavity with rock wool to try and reduce the noise. I dont know how this is going to help as that cavity has always been there and the noise wasnt present with the last windows.
Thanks all.

Taking the strips away and taking the cills away and doing a proper job is required. Anglian are notorious for both employing and sub contracting idiots. Filling the cavity with Rockwool is proof that they do not know what they are doing. The cavity should remain clear, (assuming that you do not have cavity wall insulation) and cavity closers should be carefully installed and meticulously sealed. Likewise at the cills. All cracks, loose plaster, hollowness and damage should be meticulously made good and sealed.

If you have cavity wall insulation then further suggestions are needed.

chickenpie81

Furts wrote: »

Taking the strips away and taking the cills away and doing a proper job is required. Anglian are notorious for both employing and sub contracting idiots. Filling the cavity with Rockwool is proof that they do not know what they are doing. The cavity should remain clear, (assuming that you do not have cavity wall insulation) and cavity closers should be carefully installed and meticulously sealed. Likewise at the cills. All cracks, loose plaster, hollowness and damage should be meticulously made good and sealed.

If you have cavity wall insulation then further suggestions are needed.

Thanks. I do have cavity wall insulation. What are the other options? I'm getting more confused by the minute.

greenface

It maybe they are covering the hollow space behind the window rather than the cavity (should have done that anyway rather than slapping a plastic strip over restuck paper and probably a messy plaster fillet behind that . Get in get out job done attitude from some window firms .What is now unfair to you as you have paid a lot of money is regardless of anything they do you will feel that traffic noise could be quieter and what you have paid for in the first place . This will be a difficult one to resolve . I recently fitted single flange cavity closers into insulated walls because when the frames were out the customer was concerned how much draught was running through the cavity (always been there but much worse when the frame was out . And a kinspan cover onto the upstairs top windows into the soffits . Did it make any difference . I don't know thankfully I never had to sleep with the woman (!!!!) were they happy . very . That's a result

greenface

chickenpie81 wrote: »

Yes, they did replace the internal sills. At the time of fitting there was wallpaper on the walls and so I didn't see the mess at this time. A manager called and they are to redo the sealant, the wallpaper was on when he visited also.
Unfortunately I had all of the windows in the house replaced and so have nothing to compared it too.
When the fitters return they are going to take the internal white strips away from the wall and fill the wall cavity with rock wool to try and reduce the noise. I dont know how this is going to help as that cavity has always been there and the noise wasnt present with the last windows.
What other pictures would help for you to see the standard of work? Anglian are returning next week so want to be armed with as much info as possible.
Thanks all.

caulk and care by decent knowledgable fitters would have this not going into page 3 thread im sure .

Furts

chickenpie81 wrote: »

Thanks. I do have cavity wall insulation. What are the other options? I'm getting more confused by the minute.

If you have cavity wall insulation fitted by the original builder then a careful making good and cavity closing should be done. If you have retro fitted cavity wall insulation then Anglain will have made your 25 year guarantee invalid. But there is nothing you can do about that now and this happens all the time. The pragmatic solution is meticulous attention to detail and you should be OK. The problem is Anglian should be drawing up a proper specification for the works for you to scrutinise, then inspect the work to check against this.

chickenpie81

Hello!
Update: fitters returned yesterday and have solved all problems bar the road noise. They took the internal plastic strip away from the window to reveal what was almost entirely brick, with foam in the inch gap to the cavity. So, no space for rockwool.
Requested the manager to call as obviously no improvement, but nothing as yet. Going to send a complaint through their internal complaints address as this seems to be the only way the manager returns my calls.

Nick_D_2

Hello all,

I am an acoustic consultant, so I'll try to shed a little light on this subject.

Firstly, be very careful of any sales gimmicks for 'acoustic' glazing. There is no one specification suitable for every application. The glazing specification for noise reduction is dependant on the following factors:

1. The existing noise impacting on the external facade (obviously!)

2. The area of glazing (larger areas will be worse than smaller areas)

3. Room dimensions and absorption (i.e in a small empty room the noise may be worse than that in a large room full of furnishings)

A salesman will certainly not consider these factors (or have the knowledge how to) therefore there is a risk when selecting any old 'acoustic' glazing that you might end up with:

1. Over specified glazing, costing you the earth

2. Under specified glazing, and noise is still an issue

3. The glazing performance is suitable, however the noise reduction is undermined by trickle vents (common!)

4. Poor workmanship may also undermine new glazing, i.e if you can feel air, rest assured the noise will also get through!

There are proprietary acoustic trickle vents, however these only offer marginal noise reduction performance and would not be suitable for houses located near particularly noisy sources, such as major road and rail networks, city centres or underneath airport flight paths.

This would mean the dwelling would need to be ventilated mechanically, thus not requiring any open vents. This is common of new build dwellings in noisy areas. If you want to learn more about ventilation see Approved Document F.

Usually it would be just the glazing and vents that are the significant elements of noise ingress, however in some cases of very high noise levels other building elements such as wall and ceilings may also require treatment.

Therefore my advice is to ask an acoustic consultant (see Association of Noise Consultants web site to find a local consultant) to undertake a noise survey and calculations to determine a suitable specification, if you can afford this. If your wanting to sound insulate a whole house this would be worth while, but would not be cost effective for a single window!

A single pane of glass can actually perform better acoustically than a double glazed unit, likewise triple glazing offers little benefit acoustically. The primary reason for multiple pane glazing is for thermal reasons.

This is hard for people to understand the reasons why without some acoustic knowledge. But in a vague nutshell, a pane of glass will have a dip in the performance at particular frequencies (resonances caused by bending waves across the glass). Therefore a standard 4 mm glass / 6-20 mm gap / 4 mm glass double glazing will get that dip in the performance twice, thus making performance worse at these frequencies.

This is why to increase the performance of double glazing you need the two panes to be of different thickness. Mass is also important, and a laminated glass will help.

See the data sheet for Pilkingtons Optiphon (found with quick google search).

The document on their site contains test data highlighting the improvements in performance.

The 9.1mm laminated glass / 20 mm gap / 13.1 mm laminated glass provides the best acoustic performance, and is about as good as you get with a double glazed unit.

If this is not good enough, or low frequency noise is a problem, a secondly glazed unit is necessary and provides by far the best improvement (even if you where to maintain existing Windows). As well as being the most effective solution, this can also be the cheapest solution!

Secondary glazing only needs to consist of a single pane (spec. dependant on consultants advice), but the gap between existing/new double glazing and the secondary pane needs to be min. 100 mm, increasing gap will increase performance. There is no difference in performance increasing your the small gap between double glazing, this gap needs to be large to get the performance hence why we need a secondary unit.

I hope the above helps shed a little light on the subject and that I have highlighted the risks of just picking any old specification. Seaking proffessinal advice from an acoustic consultant is the best way to ensure you get the results you want, and may even save you a penny or two on paying for inappropriate glazing.

Good luck guys.

greenface

Can you get a 42mm unit into a 70mm frame . I have only witnessed this in 5+ inch frames (shop front) and the weight of that size lami would break standard hinges in a heartbeat. Some good advice Nick D esp the secondary glazing . but very expensive hence impractical in a domestic house where other factors . walls roof ceilings air bricks can be as big a problem . I remember a double glazing salesman I worked with his patter was . You will save 25% of any heat loss in your house through the windows or similar patter. Left them all the figures . If anyone read it showed about 18% is lost through the windows so they are saving about 4% per year total on your house . In my gaff im saving £40/50 a year . If fitted properly.