Elite Management (Midlands) & ZZPS

FuriousD18

Hi all

I've been through all the information I could find in the stickies and had a good search of ZZPS and Elite Management on these forums, but feel my situation is slightly different as I was a little late to the party and am already through the POPLA appeal process.

I received a PCN in June because I placed my ticket on the dashboard and it must have flipped when I closed the door as it wasn't "clearly displayed". My ticket was valid, just the attendant couldn't see the time on it. I bought my ticket at 12:50 - valid until 23:59 - with the fine issued at 14:10.

Perhaps naively, I emailed Elite Management the day I received my ticket with a copy of the valid ticket assuming they would cancel the fine when they saw my valid ticket. They rejected my appeal and referred me to POPLA, Again, perhaps too naively, I responded to POPLA immediately, enclosing a copy of my valid ticket.

My appeal was rejected on 1 August for the following reason:

"Whilst it is not disputed that the Appellant purchased a ticket, the car park is a pay and display car park and a ticket must therefore be both purchased and clearly displayed in order to be valid. In order for a ticket to be displayed, the ticket must be placed in a prominent location with all of the details on the ticket clearly visible to those wishing to determine the validity of the ticket displayed. Whilst I note that the Appellant states that the ticket was displayed in the vehicle, the photographs of the vehicle show that the ticket was displayed face down on the dashboard and all of the details on the ticket were therefore not clearly visible."

Today I received a letter from ZZPS saying I owe £172. The letter also included the following paragraph:

"A requirement of Pre-Action Practice Directions is that prior to any legal proceedings being issues against you that Letter Before Action is sent to you. We hereby give you notice that if repayment of the Balance is not made within 7 days of this letter, we will pass this matter to our solicitors, with instructions to look at issuing legal proceedings against you in the County Court without further reference to you."

Having read the stickies - I'm not sure if this is an LBC - or a threat that they will send an LBC soon?

I'm looking for advice. Is there anyway I can make a 2nd appeal against the POPLA decision? Should I reply to ZZPS telling them to refer my case back to Elite and then contact them again? I use this car park nearly every day I go to work (and for now still do), is it worth mentioning this to Elite?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Redx

ignore the debt collectors (post #4 of the newbies sticky thread)

an LBC would come from the PPC (orgam grinders), not the monkeys on their shoulders

no you cannot make a second appeal to popla, your first one should have had legal grounds in it, too late now

doesnt matter if you frequent the same car park or not, it matters not a jot

only deal with an actual LBC from the PPC, or court papers issued by a uk court on behalf of the PPC

FuriousD18

Thanks Redx. Really appreciate the response.

In your experience, do you know the likelihood of EM pursuing the case all the way to court? My understanding is that I wouldn't be liable for any further charges should it go to small claims court, but feel like I've read so many different stories now I'm not sure!

Redx

I dont , sorry

anybody can issue a small claim against you or me for any perceived debt or problem, making it stand up in court is a different matter

Barry Beavis has been to court 3 times in the last 18 months and is awaiting his decision, Parking Eye issued over thirty THOUSAND claims last year, out of maybe 40 or 50 thousand issued

so never say never, it could happen, but even if you lost in court it would only be something similar to the ZZPS demand

they have 6 years to bring a court claim

Quentin

FuriousD18 wrote: »

.....My understanding is that I wouldn't be liable for any further charges should it go to small claims court, but feel like I've read so many different stories now I'm not sure!

It depends whether or not you lose at court.


If you lose, then (providing they have stuck to the rules on issuing claims) the court will award them all their court fees (costs for issuing the claim and the hearing itself) plus their allowable expenses.


Alternatively if you win then they have to swallow all the court fees, their costs and pay you your allowable expenses for attending the hearing.

Half_way

It may be possible to go for a landowner complaint/cancelation

Grimble

Well if they take you to court all you have to do is ask why the ticket did not have adhesive to stick to your windscreen. They have lost nothing as you have paid and have proof of payment, err cannot see this one going anywhere near small claims court. Just ignore everything except LLBC or court papers when you need to come back here. Be aware of fake solicitor letters where they fail to name their client or the client is the debt collector, debt collectors cannot issue claims.

Quentin

Grimble wrote: »

Well if they take you to court all you have to do is ask why the ticket did not have adhesive to stick to your windscreen.....

@ OP. Take care over this advice which is far too simplistic!

The_Deep

If they were to take this to court they would have a mountain to climb.


They have lost nothing and are aware that you have paid, they should have walked away at that point. They may not have the locus to start court proceedings, you could allege that their sign were not clear enough, you could ask the local council if they had planning permissions, there are being unreasonable in their charges which amount to a penalty, their charge cannot be commercially justifified.


I do not think that they will go near court, but, if they do, I do not fancy their chances.

FuriousD18

Thanks for the responses! The above sounds promising.

Should I,
a) Continue to ignore ZZPS and wait for EM to get in touch/court papers?
b) Ignore ZZPS but respond to EM with the arguments made by The Deep above.
c) Respond to ZZPS telling them to refer the case back to EM?

Apologies for asking potentially newbie questions. I noticed in the newbie sticky post 4 about not responding to ZZPS, but then in other posts people have responded to ZZPS and it seems to have worked (by which I mean they send the case back to PPC), so I just wanted to get the latest take on this.

Again, thanks in advance!

ampersand

Good to see that you're reading thoroughly,
op.
Welcome to mse and this excellent forum.
Regulars keep the Stickies updated and are experts in the field.

What you read there, along with templates for personal tweaking, is trustworthy and accurate.

Answers:
[a] YES.
IGNORE. NO. NEVER RESPOND TO DEBT COLLECTORS IN ANY WAY. NEVER PHONE THEM. pp scumpanies, especially this lot, use heavy, threatening language and quasi-legal terminology. How else can they try and part you from your money? Come back if you receive a GENUINE lbc or MCOL.
[c] Ditto.
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Elite Management & ZZPS - 2nd stage appeal to POPLA ...

forums.moneysavingexpert.com › ... › Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking

urgent zzps debt collector letter
21 Apr 2015
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pcn zzps parking fines help-urgent
21 Apr 2015

ZZPS Ltd and Wright Hassall LLP - Page 2
18 Mar 2015


Subscribe to Parking Prankster's blog and look at this, from last September -
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014_09_01_archive.html

You may well receive Wright Hassall garbage. Just keep everything filed for 6 yrs and re-read those newbies stickies.