Corbynomics: A Dystopia

cepheus

Tories have forgotten that Thatcher wasn't just a terrorist sympathiser, but close friends with one.

Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand has never wielded the levers of power in government, and has never done more than put forward ideas

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html

Moby

cepheus wrote: »

Tories have forgotten that Thatcher wasn't just a terrorist sympathiser, but close friends with one.

Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand has never wielded the levers of power in government, and has never done more than put forward ideas

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html

Exactly .....there really are some 'right ones' on here sometimes. Imagine having a pint with them:eek: It's all the migrants fault:rotfl:Meanwhile George is making friends in China......imagine that...... they'll have a stake in our nuclear industry soon..........if only the world was as simple as some people seem to think it is!

cepheus

CLAPTON wrote: »

I fully accept that there are many views on what should or should not be done about the problems in the middle east /north africa.

I believe there is plenty of room for an interesting debate about this and Dave and Jeremy approach.

However I don't think what happened at Oxford 30 years ago is relevant

Why don't you tell us what Jeremy believes ought to be done and compare and contrast with Dave's approach.

This gives you an idea of Dave's approach.

Former Tory chairman Michael Ancram said that Mr Cameron’s decisions over Libya have left the country “ungovernable… with vast amounts of weapons from Gaddafi’s arsenal moved south of the border, arming Boko Haram.” A senior American government insider allegedly said the White House felt “******* over” by Mr Cameron on both Libya and Syria, while General Sir David Richards allegedly told the Prime Minister that being in the Combined Cadet Force at Eton did not make him qualified enough to make decisions over complex military operations and the tactics employed in them.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-accused-of-doing-an-iraq-in-libya-as-general-and-white-house-official-condemn-10511891.html

Jeremy's policy is dialogue as in the Good Friday agreement with the IRA.

CLAPTON

cepheus wrote: »

Tories have forgotten that Thatcher wasn't just a terrorist sympathiser, but close friends with one.

Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand has never wielded the levers of power in government, and has never done more than put forward ideas

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/tories-have-forgotten-that-thatcher-wasnt-just-a-terrorist-sympathiser-but-close-friends-with-one-10507850.html

100% agree that Pinochet was a vile murderer and that Thatcher called him a true friend.
The fact he helped the UK in the Faulklands war was no excuse.

However, why this makes Corbyn/McConnell friendship with the IRA/Hamas etc more acceptable is unclear.

One might think that not having any power would allow a more principled approach.

cepheus

CLAPTON wrote: »

100% agree that Pinochet was a vile murderer and that Thatcher called him a true friend.
The fact he helped the UK in the Faulklands war was no excuse.

However, why this makes Corbyn/McConnell friendship with the IRA/Hamas etc more acceptable is unclear.

One might think that not having any power would allow a more principled approach.

Cut off power sharing and negotiations, I'm sure it'll work out well.

cepheus

chewmylegoff

The desperate apologism for Mcdonnell in this thread is pathetic.

CLAPTON

cepheus wrote: »

Cut off power sharing and negotiations, I'm sure it'll work out well.

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make.

maybe that Corbyn/McDonnell are just the same as Blair/Thatcher?

or that a long time friendship during the IRA killing campaign is the same as a necesary accommodation to achieve peace or advantage?

nobody believes that McDonnell's 'apology' says anything of significance and doesn't say he thinks the IRA weren't murderers of women, pregnant women, children and others.

And frankly you seem to be a fellow traveller/apologist with the IRA killers.

Dansmam

CLAPTON wrote: »

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make.

maybe that Corbyn/McDonnell are just the same as Blair/Thatcher?

or that a long time friendship during the IRA killing campaign is the same as a necesary accommodation to achieve peace or advantage?

nobody believes that McDonnell's 'apology' says anything of significance and doesn't say he thinks the IRA weren't murderers of women, pregnant women, children and others.

And frankly you seem to be a fellow traveller/apologist with the IRA killers.

The point seems pretty clear. Politicians of all persuasions/colours/beliefs understand that to achieve political aims (and when successful achieve the best outcomes for the people who vote for them, which may or may not be the same thing depending on the cynicism of your political beliefs) you have to understand what and who you are dealing with to be able to either enforce or negotiate an outcome you are happy with. So you or your mates/allies/friends have to talk to them, or you have to treat them as mates/allies/friends and talk to them yourself. Simply that.

Generali

Dansmam wrote: »

The point seems pretty clear. Politicians of all persuasions/colours/beliefs understand that to achieve political aims (and when successful achieve the best outcomes for the people who vote for them, which may or may not be the same thing depending on the cynicism of your political beliefs) you have to understand what and who you are dealing with to be able to either enforce or negotiate an outcome you are happy with. So you or your mates/allies/friends have to talk to them, or you have to treat them as mates/allies/friends and talk to them yourself. Simply that.

It isn't as simple as that.

If you are PM or a senior cabinet minister then you can meaningfully hold peace talks with a terrorist. If you are a back bench extremist claiming that your Government is an occupying power and apparently supporting that terrorist group then you are an apologist for those terrorists.

That is the difference between what Mr Blair and Mr Corbyn did.