Corbynomics: A Dystopia

gadgetmind

ilovehouses wrote: »

Maybe the other 99% just don't have your work ethic.

While some don't many others clearly do. Don't be so quick to judge.

System

gadgetmind wrote: »

While some don't many others clearly do. Don't be so quick to judge.

I was obviously being ironic. I attribute much of my success to luck rather than hard work and gumption.

You talk in terms of people squandering opportunities but people have to be trained to grasp opportunities. That's the point I'm getting at - for you and I it seemed so obvious despite being working class etc etc - it's clearly not that obvious otherwise everyone in our old peer group would've done the same thing. They didn't.

I do my share of 'explaining' to the people on the telly who are moaning about UC, for example, that perhaps trying to work a few extra hours may help them be less reliant on the mercy of the state but it falls on deaf ears. Stating the obvious doesn't seem to solve many problems.

economic

ilovehouses wrote: »

I was obviously being ironic. I attribute much of my success to luck rather than hard work and gumption.

You talk in terms of people squandering opportunities but people have to be trained to grasp opportunities. That's the point I'm getting at - for you and I it seemed so obvious despite being working class etc etc - it's clearly not that obvious otherwise everyone in our old peer group would've done the same thing. They didn't.

I do my share of 'explaining' to the people on the telly who are moaning about UC, for example, that perhaps trying to work a few extra hours may help them be less reliant on the mercy of the state but it falls on deaf ears. Stating the obvious doesn't seem to solve many problems.

perhaps another factor (maybe the most significant) is raw intelligence/IQ. IQ measures cognitive ability quite well and cognitive ability is essentially the ability to grasp concepts, learn, reason, think etc.

Now IQ is shown to be largely genetic. since most decent paid jobs require a certain level of education, and crucially intelligence, it would be fair to say that IQ is correlated positively with success in ones financial life.

im not saying someone needs einsteins level of intelligence. not at all. but they require a certain degree of intelligence not only to be able to do a job/career but to outcompete ones competitors for the job.

im also not saying intelligence is the be all and end all. there are certain jobs where things like being street smart or having a "gift of the gab" means you can do well in areas requiring those skills.

what i am saying is that maybe success in life (measured by finances) is due to a combination of genetics and upbringing with genetics being the dominant factor.

just saying.

System

economic wrote: »

perhaps another factor (maybe the most significant) is raw intelligence/IQ. IQ measures cognitive ability quite well and cognitive ability is essentially the ability to grasp concepts, learn, reason, think etc.

Now IQ is shown to be largely genetic. since most decent paid jobs require a certain level of education, and crucially intelligence, it would be fair to say that IQ is correlated positively with success in ones financial life.

im not saying someone needs einsteins level of intelligence. not at all. but they require a certain degree of intelligence not only to be able to do a job/career but to outcompete ones competitors for the job.

im also not saying intelligence is the be all and end all. there are certain jobs where things like being street smart or having a "gift of the gab" means you can do well in areas requiring those skills.

what i am saying is that maybe success in life (measured by finances) is due to a combination of genetics and upbringing with genetics being the dominant factor.

just saying.

I doubt it. IQ follows a classic bell curve and the peoples of the UK are nearly all in the top few % of the world's wealthiest people but they're only averagely intelligent. That would imply being born in the UK is a massively bigger factor that intelligence i.e. dumb luck.

Warren Buffett often talks about this. If he'd been born to a poor family in Bangladesh his skills would've been worth nothing.

Genetics has nothing to do with someone's finances. For most of humankind finances were irrelevant - it's hard to think of why some would have a money gene.

People like to attribute their success to hard work and gumption. Why wouldn't they - it's a feel good story but that's all it is; a story. Humans don't like randomness (they fear it) which is why they create nice stories to hide themselves away from it.

gadgetmind

ilovehouses wrote: »

That would imply being born in the UK is a massively bigger factor that intelligence i.e. dumb luck.

Yes, free education, free health care, and even a benefits safety net (though the latter can be a missed blessing!)

People like to attribute their success to hard work and gumption.

No way could I have achieved what I have without working hard and always seeking to improve my skill set. Could I have done this and still failed? Well, yes, and the 1st company I started (at university) had some amazing success that's still talked about to this day, but it ultimately failed and took some of my house equity with it. However, you learn a few lessons and get stuck back in.

mrginge

ilovehouses wrote: »

I doubt it. IQ follows a classic bell curve and the peoples of the UK are nearly all in the top few % of the world's wealthiest people but they're only averagely intelligent. That would imply being born in the UK is a massively bigger factor that intelligence i.e. dumb luck.

All that that implies is that you shouldn’t compare iq of a subgroup to the wealth of the entire (world) population, since the other subgroup factors distort any comparative conclusion.

If you were to look at each individual country’s iq to wealth ratio and compare that then you might see a very different story.
You might not of course but at least you’d have compared apples to apples rather than a grape to a watermelon.

westernpromise

ilovehouses wrote: »

People like to attribute their success to hard work and gumption.

Envious people like to attribute other people's success to luck. It makes them feel better about wanting to rob them.

System

mrginge wrote: »

All that that implies is that you shouldn’t compare iq of a subgroup to the wealth of the entire (world) population, since the other subgroup factors distort any comparative conclusion.

It implies that the part of planet Earth where you're born influences your future far more than your IQ.

System

westernpromise wrote: »

Envious people like to attribute other people's success to luck. It makes them feel better about wanting to rob them.

People lacking in humility like to attribute their own success to an innate awesomeness. It makes them feel better about being selfish.

The reality is that with any success or failure there's an element of luck involved.

mrginge

ilovehouses wrote: »

It implies that the part of planet Earth where you're born influences your future far more than your IQ.

If your aim is to state the bleeding obvious then yes it does.

It doesn’t contribute anything towards answering the question of whether higher intelligence leads to a better future though.