Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Moby

davomcdave wrote: »

Do you also hope that the fines Labour and the Lib Dems received for election spending result in criminal prosecution?

As a Labour cheerleader you should be worried that 12 Tories lose their jobs as if they do there'll be another election and the Tories will go from a majority of a handful of seats to a majority of 100 or more and that might well be curtains for Labour finally.

Two wrongs don't make a right and what's in the news is about the tory party at present! People on this site are only to happy to stick the boot into Labour....that's understandable because such a site will tend to have self interested financially savvy, (tories) types as the dominant view. I see myself as expressing the alternative liberal view. As for an election being 'curtains for Labour'.......they were out of power for 18 years then came back....what is it now ....7 years....things change quickly now. Mayhems problems are building up....it's not a good time to be in power methinks!

Filo25

I would think a lot of centrist Labour supporters would quietly almost welcome a quick election, as an opportunity to get rid of Corbyn rather than hanging on to 2020 with an inevitable hammering at the end of it.

Corbyn is far from Labour's only problem at present, but they can't make progress in addressing any of their other issues while he "leads" the party.

davomcdave

Moby wrote: »

Two wrongs don't make a right and what's in the news is about the tory party at present! People on this site are only to happy to stick the boot into Labour....that's understandable because such a site will tend to have self interested financially savvy, (tories) types as the dominant view. I see myself as expressing the alternative liberal view. As for an election being 'curtains for Labour'.......they were out of power for 18 years then came back....what is it now ....7 years....things change quickly now. Mayhems problems are building up....it's not a good time to be in power methinks!

So does that mean you do or don't want Labour and Lib Dem MPs prosecuted if they broke the law too? I'm starting to get a sense for the answer.

It's starting to look like Blair was an oddity. He was from the far right of the Labour Party yet is the only Labour leader to win a general election since Mrs Davo was born in 1976 and it seems highly unlikely that anyone that far right will ever be put up again. The mainstream of the Labour Party is now so far to the left of the electorate it's hard for me to see how they could possibly win power. At the moment they are simply losing support but that support isn't going elsewhere, it's staying at home.

I was of the opinion that the lost Labour support would find a home in UKIP but they are such a bunch of lunatics that I have changed my mind. I think that once people get over the Lib Dems propping up a Tory Government Labour votes will head to them (2020 or 2025). Once they do it's all over red rover for Labour.

If you aren't selling what people want to buy then people won't buy from you. It's the same if you're selling spuds in the market or ideas at an election.

setmefree2

Tony Blair launches pushback against 'frightening populism'

Former PM returns to political fray by creating Institute for Global Change, arguing centre ground needs re-energising

The former prime minister – who remains controversial because of the legacy of the intervention in Iraq – said: “I am going to try to play a part in the political debate. I am aware of all the problems and baggage I bring with me. The moment I even start to engage with this, I will have a phalanx of rightwing papers that are going to go into kill mode.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:I think the left wing and centre papers hate you more :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

He has injected £10m into the enterprise.

:cool:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/17/tony-blair-launches-pushback-against-frightening-populism

Out,_Vile_Jelly

I'm increasingly puzzled by the use of the term "populist" in a negative context.

This is the first online definition that came up:

Populism is a political doctrine that proposes that the common people are exploited by a privileged elite, and which seeks to resolve this. The underlying ideology of populists can be left, right, or center. Its goal is uniting the uncorrupt and the unsophisticated "little man" against the corrupt dominant elites (usually the established politicians) and their camp of followers (usually the rich and the intellectuals).

Doesn't this describe the founding of the Labour party?

setmefree2

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I'm increasingly puzzled by the use of the term "populist" in a negative context.

This is the first online definition that came up:

Populism is a political doctrine that proposes that the common people are exploited by a privileged elite, and which seeks to resolve this. The underlying ideology of populists can be left, right, or center. Its goal is uniting the uncorrupt and the unsophisticated "little man" against the corrupt dominant elites (usually the established politicians) and their camp of followers (usually the rich and the intellectuals).

Doesn't this describe the founding of the Labour party?

Indeed. The Italian party Five Star are both populist and left wing.

I think Tony Blair just means that he isn't very popular...so therefore, he's not populist....

Moby

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

I'm increasingly puzzled by the use of the term "populist" in a negative context.

This is the first online definition that came up:

Populism is a political doctrine that proposes that the common people are exploited by a privileged elite, and which seeks to resolve this. The underlying ideology of populists can be left, right, or center. Its goal is uniting the uncorrupt and the unsophisticated "little man" against the corrupt dominant elites (usually the established politicians) and their camp of followers (usually the rich and the intellectuals).

Doesn't this describe the founding of the Labour party?

Que??? Keir Hardy part of an elite http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/keir_hardie_james.shtml

posh*spice

setmefree2 wrote: »

I think Tony Blair just means that he isn't very popular...so therefore, he's not populist....

The Iraq war dramatized a huge divergence between the values of the political elite, and what most people want and expect from politicians.

Despite popular rejection of his Iraq war, he shows no sign of unease about the millions killed nor about making large amounts of money as an international relations adviser, speech maker and even a "peace envoy" in the Middle East. It is exactly this combination of contempt for public opinion and addiction to personal gain that so many people find repellent about Blair.

He should go and crawl back under whatever stone he's been living for the past decade.

Moby

davomcdave wrote: »

So does that mean you do or don't want Labour and Lib Dem MPs prosecuted if they broke the law too? I'm starting to get a sense for the answer.

It's starting to look like Blair was an oddity. He was from the far right of the Labour Party yet is the only Labour leader to win a general election since Mrs Davo was born in 1976 and it seems highly unlikely that anyone that far right will ever be put up again. The mainstream of the Labour Party is now so far to the left of the electorate it's hard for me to see how they could possibly win power. At the moment they are simply losing support but that support isn't going elsewhere, it's staying at home.

I was of the opinion that the lost Labour support would find a home in UKIP but they are such a bunch of lunatics that I have changed my mind. I think that once people get over the Lib Dems propping up a Tory Government Labour votes will head to them (2020 or 2025). Once they do it's all over red rover for Labour.

If you aren't selling what people want to buy then people won't buy from you. It's the same if you're selling spuds in the market or ideas at an election.

Watch the news yesterday and you'll see what the tories did was on a completely different scale to the other parties. Also they did not co-operate with the investigation and forced the Electoral Commission to threaten them with a Court Order at tax payers expense.....hardly indicative of accounting errors is it! They clearly tried to disguise spending by changing the heading it came under! I agree with you about UKIP....they seem to be falling apart.....but I view this as very good news for Labour long term. If/when they get their act together....rid themselves of Corbyn.....they stand to gain the most. Blairs comments on this in the link above show the way forward. May and her govmt are poor; they are increasingly being found out. She is competent but no more and is clearly not up to the job in hand. There is far more talent on the Labour backbenches than in the tory govmt. Hammond is damaged now, Boris ....say no more.....Fox ....Davis.....are right wing loons....then you have Liz Truss, Rudd etc.....hardly real talent are they! Hammond and May.....don't trust each other. Labour need to hang in there and wait.....events happen. Who'd have thought .....Cameron would be gone 12 months after an unexpected victory in 2015......he was full of himself wasn't he after that election.....now he's gone and his talked about successor has become the Editor of the Evening Standard.

Moby

posh*spice wrote: »

The Iraq war dramatized a huge divergence between the values of the political elite, and what most people want and expect from politicians.

Despite popular rejection of his Iraq war, he shows no sign of unease about the millions killed nor about making large amounts of money as an international relations adviser, speech maker and even a "peace envoy" in the Middle East. It is exactly this combination of contempt for public opinion and addiction to personal gain that so many people find repellent about Blair.

He should go and crawl back under whatever stone he's been living for the past decade.

Purely manufactured outrage! Coming from someone who probably supported the war at the time that's rich. The main opposition to the war was on the left. Proportionally more Tory MP's than Labour MP's voted for it......ride on the bandwagon though if it suits!