Corbynomics: A Dystopia

Malthusian

TrickyTree: I don't disagree but I would argue that going from being a backbencher and Shadow Junior Minister for the Official Opposition, to Shadow Cabinet Member of an obscure minority splinter of the Socialist Workers Party, does not represent a promotion. She has jumped from the middle branches of an oak tree to the higher reaches of a nasty scrubby little thornbush.

Moby wrote:

The 'Prevent' strategy brought in by Labour to train people working with ethnic minorities to watch out for radicalisation is generally very successful!

At this point you tip from meaningless political rhetoric into outright black-is-white. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/19/muslim-council-britain-set-up-alternative-counter-terror-scheme

TrickyTree83

Malthusian wrote: »

TrickyTree: I don't disagree but I would argue that going from being a backbencher and Shadow Junior Minister for the Official Opposition, to Shadow Cabinet Member of an obscure minority splinter of the Socialist Workers Party, does not represent a promotion. She has jumped from the middle branches of an oak tree to the higher reaches of a nasty scrubby little thornbush.



At this point you tip from meaningless political rhetoric into outright black-is-white. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/19/muslim-council-britain-set-up-alternative-counter-terror-scheme

Ok your analogy might be true, but that only goes to prove that their brand of politics is wrong. That no only should Sidiq not be mayor, Abbott should not be on the front bench no matter how small the party may be now.

TrickyTree83

What about this Moby?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oZQFoUG77E

What is Europe becoming when one section of the population controls what the other (majority) can say in public? This "I'm offended" culture leading to protest and violence is wrong, but instead we curtail peoples freedoms instead of condemning the violent protest.

Moby

LHW99 wrote: »

I understand where you are coming from, but I do find there is a significant minority who conflate sensitivity with permitting anything that can be claimed as "part of the culture" I am thinking of areas such as forced marriage or FGM where people trying to bring protection in for the victims have been silenced by the argument "we shouldn't interfere as its part of their culture" Some things are against the "culture" of this country (and many others) as well as wrong, and when action is taken, it is generally the case that the perpetrators come from the minority group in question, and therefore some (though obviously not all) would argue that group was being "unfairly targeted", and IMHO more of those who have argued this, identify with the left-leaning parties.

This is why we have training so that we know the difference. It's not a perfect world and these issues are difficult.....that means it is better not to conflate cultural sensitivity, (a good thing) with excessive political correctness, (a bad thing). By the way I have never come across anyone who works in a caring profession who would defend FGM because 'its part of the culture'. I think such extreme views are held by some people but they are not at all mainstream. These extreme views are seized on by those who have their own agenda as examples of 'how things have gone crazy etc'....this is the left today etc etc but that is patent nonsense and their aim is to use such issues as a stick to beat the left/liberals with.....usually people they don't like anyway by the way!

Moby

Malthusian wrote: »

At this point you tip from meaningless political rhetoric into outright black-is-white. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/19/muslim-council-britain-set-up-alternative-counter-terror-scheme

I find your post and link quite meaningless.......... that article just says the Muslim Council want to set up their own strategy....so what? I think the Home Office strategy is a good one one and I back it....do you prefer the Muslim Council approach?

CLAPTON

Moby wrote: »

This is why we have training so that we know the difference. It's not a perfect world and these issues are difficult.....that means it is better not to conflate cultural sensitivity, (a good thing) with excessive political correctness, (a bad thing). By the way I have never come across anyone who works in a caring profession who would defend FGM because 'its part of the culture'. I think such extreme views are held by some people but they are not at all mainstream. These extreme views are seized on by those who have their own agenda as examples of 'how things have gone crazy etc'....this is the left today etc etc but that is patent nonsense and their aim is to use such issues as a stick to beat the left/liberals with.....usually people they don't like anyway by the way!

For the last 40 years we have had the combined forces of the great and good praising cultural diversity. It was ALWAYS unqualified. Forced marriages, 'honour' killings etc were known about but never mentioned in the cultural context. Just as black on black crime is routinely disregarded whilst the issue issue of stop and search gets (rightly) air time.
It may be true you have personally never came across it.

TrickyTree83

Moby wrote: »

This is why we have training so that we know the difference. It's not a perfect world and these issues are difficult.....that means it is better not to conflate cultural sensitivity, (a good thing) with excessive political correctness, (a bad thing). By the way I have never come across anyone who works in a caring profession who would defend FGM because 'its part of the culture'. I think such extreme views are held by some people but they are not at all mainstream. These extreme views are seized on by those who have their own agenda as examples of 'how things have gone crazy etc'....this is the left today etc etc but that is patent nonsense and their aim is to use such issues as a stick to beat the left/liberals with.....usually people they don't like anyway by the way!

Because it IS a stick to beat the left with.

Is just is.

The hypocrisy is awful. Watch the debate, look at how those supporters of Islam talk about how they "willingly sacrifice their right to free speech" so as not to offend, except they don't, they do exercise the right, but expect others not to do so.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

What about this Moby?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oZQFoUG77E

What is Europe becoming when one section of the population controls what the other (majority) can say in public? This "I'm offended" culture leading to protest and violence is wrong, but instead we curtail peoples freedoms instead of condemning the violent protest.

Tricky....I don't think we are on the same page mate....perhaps we are not even reading the same book! I've tried to explain but it's not worked. I don't think anyone is attempting to control anyone else and what they can say. I am able to say whatever I think so long as I don't incite hatred or violence and surely that is right and civilised! I also think you know underneath some of your views are pretty extreme and 'off the dial' and your stridency and straw men arguments are attempts to cover this up.

Moby

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

Because it IS a stick to beat the left with.

Is just is.

The hypocrisy is awful. Watch the debate, look at how those supporters of Islam talk about how they "willingly sacrifice their right to free speech" so as not to offend, except they don't, they do exercise the right, but expect others not to do so.

Can't open the link Tricky....limited access computer!

Moby

CLAPTON wrote: »

For the last 40 years we have had the combined forces of the great and good praising cultural diversity. It was ALWAYS unqualified. Forced marriages, 'honour' killings etc were known about but never mentioned in the cultural context. Just as black on black crime is routinely disregarded whilst the issue issue of stop and search gets (rightly) air time.
It may be true you have personally never came across it.

Totally wrong to say cultural diversity was praised in an unqualified way. If you are asserting this show me the proof! Every training I have been on, every policy I have seen in almost 30 years in public service celebrates cultural diversity but has never ever defended FGM, forced marriages, honour killings etc. IMO you are confusing an awareness of such issues for an acceptance of them! Also please be aware that the people who are in the front line over challenging such medieval practices and attitudes are often the very same people you condemn for being excessively PC or 'turning a blind eye' to abuse. We live in a multi cultural society whether we like it or not and THIS IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE. You either work with people and try to take them with you or you create hostility and division....which is it?