EU Citizen with child as partner

MissMoneypenny

Lanzarote1938 wrote: »

missmoneypenny: Will any of these new rules get rid of the Big Issue sellers who sell a couple of copies a week?

It depends how they are exercising their treaty rights to be allowed to reside in the UK and whether they now still have a right to be in the UK with the changes the UK has made to qualified persons using free movement. Or what future tightening up the UK will do for worker qualified persons in the UK.


The SE route was a widley abused route to stay in the UK and not just the big issue sellers. Some non-EU citizens used an EU citizen to get them to the UK and then pretened the EU citizen had a SE business even though they hardly made any money from their SE. By doing this it gave their spouse and all their non-EU family members they brought with them, free NHS and free access to all UK benefits after 3 months (it used to be immediate access and to DLA benefits too before 2010). If the EU citizen claimed they were exercsing treaty rights as a self sufficient, they are not allowed to have welfare or free heathcare and neither are any of their family members even if their non-EU citizen family members are in work. It was an loophole the UK shut and it doesn't affect the genuine SE.

cliffandsue

That's a bit harsh. I thought that being in the EU was all about equal and portable rights?
To say that a mum and a young kiddie will be booted out of the UK to another EU country after 3 months, is certainly against their human rights.

leveller2911

cliffandsue wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. I thought that being in the EU was all about equal and portable rights?
To say that a mum and a young kiddie will be booted out of the UK to another EU country after 3 months, is certainly against their human rights.

There is no such thing as all being "equel" within the EU because each member state has a different benefit system. Try popping over to Poland,Bulgaria etc and see what they say when you want free healthcare,housing benefit,council tax benefit,unemployment benefit,tax credits etc they will just laugh at you ...

If you want equality then one of 2 things needs to happen , either the rest of the EU will need to handout benefits like smarties in the same way the UK has/does or the UK will need to adopt their approach which is a contributions based system so those who have paid little/nothing into the system will get the same out which is little/nothing.

Which would you prefer?. Oh and Btw its not against their "oooman rights".

Check out the link below which shows the benefits each EU states pays out and the basic criteria. The UK has changed some of its rules but you can see why so many EU migrants love the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10391238/Benefits-in-Europe-country-by-country.html

Lanzarote1938

cliffandsue wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. I thought that being in the EU was all about equal and portable rights?
To say that a mum and a young kiddie will be booted out of the UK to another EU country after 3 months, is certainly against their human rights.

The adult should be aware of this before they come. The decision and blame if they have to leave Britain will then be hers.

von

I think Miss Moneypenny needs to familiarise herself with Jobseekers Allowance legislation. Thanks for your support Jetplane.

MissMoneypenny

von wrote: »

I think Miss Moneypenny needs to familiarise herself with Jobseekers Allowance legislation.

Read the links given on this thread to the gov.uk site and the freemovement site. The UK have stopped EEA citizens from claiming UK benefits when they arrive.

You need to update yourself with EU laws and UK immigration laws. Now no foreign national can claim JSA from the UK when they arrive even if they are married to a Brit because the UK stopped that in January 2014 for EEA citizen and their families.

Even EEA citizens who arrived before January 2014 and lose their UK job (or who have never worked and been claiming UK benefits for years as a jobseeker) now only have a 6 months time limit as a jobseeker qualifed person under treaty rights: unless they have achieved PR. If they lose their right to reside then they lose all UK benefits and UK councils have no duty to house them because they should leave the UK.

Since 2010 the UK has also got very strict on granting British citizenship to EEA nationals and their families. The UK now require proof that the EEA national has achieved PR by being a Qualified Person under treaty rights for every day of the 5 years. It's not the UKs fault if they haven't bothered to keep up to date with free movement rules in the UK.

It's a myth that an EEA citizen can just live in another country and that all EEA citizens and their family members can use the British NHS for free. For the NHS they either need to use their own countires EHIC to pay or pay themselves, athough they need to pay for what isn't covered by their own countries EHIC. But the NHS never had the means to check to see which EEAs should pay until recently, as they relied on the honesty of the EEA citizen.

To stop all the abuse, since 2010 the UK has been busy with new systems, sharing systems, and amending EEA regualtions in the UK for those using free movement.

jetplane

MissMoneyPenny I can only think that we are at cross purposes. The EU national will not be claiming the benefit the British National will. And it will be social security law which applies.

MissMoneypenny

jetplane wrote: »

MissMoneyPenny I can only think that we are at cross purposes. The EU national will not be claiming the benefit the British National will. And it will be social security law which applies.

We aren't at cross purposes. It's EU law which applies in this case as she is using EU laws to enter the UK. Think about it, from what you think should happen would mean that an illegal who lives with a Brit or someone with ILR or PR, would be able to claim JSA.

You will just have to accept that the UK has now stopped EEA nationals claiming from the UK when they arrive. This includes those who are a partner of a Brit as there is not and has never had been, a 'partner of a citizen of that country' qualified person for free movement. EU law says a qualified person is only worker, jobseeker, student, self sufficient.

As she will entering the UK under EU treaty rights as a jobseeker qualified person, she will have to wait to claim JSA from the UK for 3 months and should be claiming those benfefits from her own EEA country while she looks for work in the UK. After 3 months she can claim JSA from the UK for just 3 months (the maximum an EEA can reside in the UK as a jobseeker now). BUT as you can see from the link in the second post, if it is an Universal Credit area then she won't be able to claim.

Have you read the links in this thread?

This claiming benefits from another EEA country when they are not allowed is a big problem for some EEA countries, which is why Germany is planning to instantly deport and ban EEAs for 5 years if they do this.

MissMoneypenny

cliffandsue wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. I thought that being in the EU was all about equal and portable rights?

They only have rights under EU law. i.e. EEA citizen jobseeker qualified person has 6 months to reside in the UK but a British citizen doesn't not have to leave their own country and can claim benefits from their own country; Retired Brit in the UK can have benefits and free NHS, retired EEA comes under the Self Sufficient qualified person and a self sufficient in the UK can't have any welfare of free healthcare from the UK.

cliffandsue wrote: »

To say that a mum and a young kiddie will be booted out of the UK to another EU country after 3 months, is certainly against their human rights.

Human rights doesn't mean that you get to choose the country you want to live in.

EU laws says 3 months only and then must leave if you aren't a qualified person and remain a qualified person.

Single EEA parent and not working, are not a qualified person under treaty rights of free movement, unless they can prove they have the means to be a self sufficient (savings and regular money coming in to pay for themselves and their children and pay for all own healthcare). This not being a qualified person is why the UK was able to remove the UK benefits of non-working EEA citizens and their children, regardless of how long they had been claiming.

von

Miss Moneypenny - the point is the EU National is NOT the claimant. As they have a child she is the partner on his JSA claim and therefore is not subject to the same rules as the claimant. Had she been the claimant then the information in your posts would apply but she is not claimant.