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EU Citizen with child as partner
Comments
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OP says that she has been working in Austria, and intends to look for work once she is here.
Thank you., thats what I was trying to point out. She is under EU law to enter the UK.
She cannot claim anything form the UK for 3 months (as per the links I gave to the free movement in the UK site from a chambers). If she is an UC area, they she will not be able to claim until she has worked (the link in the second post).
After 3 months she can only stay if she is exercising treaty right of either:-
Worker (PAYE or Self Emplyed) as as per April 2015, to be a worker qualified person she must be earning 24 hours per week and the hourly NMW. She can then claim all UK benefits, although form the link inthe 2nd post, form March 2015, if in a UC area she can't claim anything until she has paid into the UK.
Jobseeker. 6 months to look for work and they the right to reside in the UK has gone. No claiming for the first 3 months. Then only JSA for the second 3 months (no Tax Credits, housing benefit etc). If in a UC area, there will be nothing until they have paid into the UK. See the free movement linls in my prevous posts.
Here are thse links again
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/eu-jobseekers-barred-from-claiming-universal-credit
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/benefits-to-be-withdrawn-from-eea-jobseekers-previously-unaffected-by-the-january-2014-changes/
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/existing-eea-migrants-at-risk-of-destitution-following-the-removal-of-housing-benefit/
ONLY those EUs paying NICs each week can have free NHS.
Student. No benefits from the UK or free NHS for them or any of their family members. Tax Credits are benefits.
Self Sufficient. No benefits from the UK or free NHS for them or any of their family members. Tax Credits are benefits.
While UK immigration law is different for a spouse of a Brit on a UK visa as they are subject to "immigration control".
i.e.- Their spouse on a UK visa doesn't have to be in work to remain in the UK and they are allowed to use the NHS for freewhile they have a valid visaTheir British/ILR holder parter can claim Child tax Credits (in the Brits name) and Child Benefit (in both names) for their partner's child even though the child has "no recourse to public funds" on their visa.
- Through their joint Tax Credit claim, the wife of a Brit is not treated as being subject to "immigraion control" if there is a child in the family. Although since July 2012 the Brit has to prove they have 18.600 a year to sponsor their spouse and extra for every non-Brit child.
- If neither parents in the UK on UL visas has achieved ILR, then they can't claim any UK benefits, not even for their child.
RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
MissMoneypenny wrote: »Perhaps you would like to say how the EU national is exercising her EU rights to be in the UK if she isn't working? There is only worker, jobseeker, student or self employed qualified person, to be exercising treaty rights past 3 months. Her son is a family member of an EU citizen and his stay in the UK is dependant on his mother.
A EU national can also claim benefits as a qualified person from derived rights in addition to those you quote. In this case his partner is not claiming benefits, he is and both her and her child are family members.
In the case of EU nationals the Home Secretary can only deport for public safety or public health reasons. Unless a court has recommended deportation, it's unusual for the Home Secretary to initiate deportation, unless there is overwhelming public need.
A EU national can choose to return home and this can be paid for by social services where children are involved. Women not entitled to benefits, or not even having ID, are giving birth everyday in our hospitals.The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steve Biko0 -
You are getting your laws muddled.An EU national can also claim benefits as a qualified person from derived rights in addition to those you quote.
What "derived rights" from an EEA citizen are you talking about? She is an already an EU citizen.
EU law is quite clear that an EU citizen must be a "qualified person" to exercise treaty rights of free movement: worker, jobseeker, student, self sufficient. EEA countries can decide who they give free healthcare to and how they define "qualified person" for benefits or a right to reside in their country.
An EEA country also can change their stance as often as they want to as EU law allows this. The UK has done this repeatedly in the last 5 years and and has done it again this year and these changes also affects those EUs in the UK before the changes.
This statement makes the UK changes clear for EEA migrants in the UK.
“The Government wishes to deter EEA migrants from coming to the UK if they do not have a firm offer of or realistic chance of securing work. Those who come to the UK to look for work should ensure that they have sufficient resources to pay for their accommodation needs, as well as other support that they or their family may need while here.
The best option for those EEA migrants who are unable to find work, who lack savings or support networks and who are at real risk of ending up destitute is to return home.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/376103/PRINT-HB-Habitual-Residence-Amendment-Regs-2014-SSAC-report.pdf
and discussed here
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/existing-eea-migrants-at-risk-of-destitution-following-the-removal-of-housing-benefit/
Benefit staff are not meant to be immigration experts and immigrants are often claiming benefits that they are not allowed to take. Or the EU country they move to make amendments to EU treaty rules in their country, which means their benefits from that country end, as the UK have done.
However, UKVI (UK visa and immigration) are very hot on who has claimed benefits when they can't; who hasn't paid their UK taxes; who used the NHS without paying, who used deception; who didn’t keep to EU laws of a qualified person every single day after that 3 months they were allowed in the UK. UKVI staff must now check every applicant and have now been given access to records from other departments as well as receiving information from other government departments of suspected fraud, or from the public on their newly set up “report” lines/online.In this case his partner is not claiming benefits, he is and both her and her child are family members.
They can't be his "family members" under EU law as she is joining him in his own EU country. i.e. A German citizen can’t be an EU national in Germany; a Brit can’t be an EU national in the UK etc. As she can't be his "family member" then her right to reside in the UK comes under her, as an EU citizen, exercising treaty rights in the UK
In fact, on the back of the UK winning against McCarthy in the EU courts in 2011, the UK got EU law changed for the UK only. Which means that now even EU citizens who came to the UK and have naturalised a British citizen to secure their stay, can no longer use EU law to bring family members to the UK and must now use UK laws. In other words, under EU law and UK law, if you are a British citizen then you can’t be any other national in the UK. This doesn’t work like this in other EEA countries as the EU law change was just for the UK.In the case of EU nationals the Home Secretary can only deport for public safety or public health reasons. Unless a court has recommended deportation, it's unusual for the Home Secretary to initiate deportation, unless there is overwhelming public need.
You are getting your laws muddled. EU law allows EEA countries to deport EU citizens and their family members. This is why the UK didn't need any law change when in 2010 they also started deporting and banning for 1 year, those EU citizens and their family members if the EU citizen was not a qualified person; they don't have a right to reside in the UK and use UK services i.e. schools
EU law allowing EU citizens to be deported is also why Germany intends to use that to instantly deport and ban EUs and their families for 5 years if they take benefits they aren't allowed or use deception on a benefits clam from another EEA country. Merkel said she is confident she will get that past human rights laws.Women not entitled to benefits, or not even having ID, are giving birth everyday in our hospitals.
The NHS won't make them give birth in the streets! But they will now be billed and can now be chased for this debt in other EU countries and from April 2015 have 25% added to their bill plus any further charges incurred in chasing that debt. Plus their own EU country can now pay for some of their maternity care. Under the UK law change in April, the NHS must now bill them or their NHS trust will be fined. The NHS trust gets to keep all the money from the bill including the 25% they add on.
For the non-EUs the UK has other new laws that came in. Any NHS total bill of 1k and over that is not paid means no visa to remain or to enter the UK until they pay in full. From April they get 50% added to their NHS bill if they don’t use insurance to pay and the NHS trust can keep that too. The NHS report debtors to UKVI.
It's all very clear for EEA migrants in the UK and they are requited to keep up to date with all the EU migrant changes if they live in another EEA country.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
:rotfl: May I suggest you edit and insert the word 'not' in your post... lolThe NHS will make them give birth in the streets!0
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MissMoneypenny wrote: »You are getting your laws muddled.
No I'm not.
What "derived rights" from an EEA citizen are you talking about? She is an already an EU citizen.
If you knew the law on social security you would know what derived rights are.
EU law is quite clear that an EU citizen must be a "qualified person" to exercise treaty rights of free movement: worker, jobseeker, student, self sufficient. EEA countries can decide who they give free healthcare to and how they define "qualified person" for benefits or a right to reside in their country. An EEA country can change their stance as often as they want to as EU law allows this. The UK has done this repeatedly in the last 5 years and these changes also affects those EUs in the UK before the changes.
The UK can make changes as often as they wish, however European Law over rules Domestic Law
This statement makes the UK changes clear for EEA migrant in the UK.
“The Government wishes to deter EEA migrants from coming to the UK if they do not have a firm offer of or realistic chance of securing work. Those who come to the UK to look for work should ensure that they have sufficient resources to pay for their accommodation needs, as well as other support that they or their family may need while here.
The best option for those EEA migrants who are unable to find work, who lack savings or support networks and who are at real risk of ending up destitute is to return home.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/376103/PRINT-HB-Habitual-Residence-Amendment-Regs-2014-SSAC-report.pdf
That is a statement not law, yes the intention is to make EU migrants destitute so that they return home but some choose to stay.
Benefit staff are not meant to be immigration experts and immigrants are often claim benefits that they are not allowed to take. Some get caught and later have their benefits removed regardless of how many years they have been claiming.
Decision Makers are trained in EU social security law, not immigration, they can only use the facts they are given, errors are made and if they are caught indeed their benefits stop.
UKVI (UK visa and immigration) are very hot on who has claimed benefits when they can't; who hasn't paid their UK taxes; who used the NHS without paying, who used deception; who didn’t keep to EU laws of a qualified person every single day after that 3 months they were allowed in the UK. UKVI staff must now check every applicant and have now been given access to records from other departments as well as receiving information from other government departments of suspected fraud, or from the public on their newly set up “report” lines/online.
Every applicant for benefit?? Not possible.
They can't be his "family members" under EU law as he is living in his own EU country. i.e. A German citizen can’t be an EU national in Germany; a Brit can’t be an EU national in the UK etc.
We are subject to the same social security laws as all EU nationals, in fact some EU nationals have more rights to benefit than a British Citizen.
In fact, on the back of the UK winning against McCarthy in the EU courts in 2011, the UK got EU law changed for the UK only. Which means that now even EU citizens who came to the UK and have naturalised a British citizen to secure their stay, can no longer use EU law to bring family members to the UK and must now use UK laws. In other words, if you are a British citizen then you can’t be any other national in the UK. This doesn’t work like this in other EEA countries.
EU law governs Europe it over rules Domestic Law.
You are getting your laws muddled. EU law allows EEA countries to deport EU citizens and their family members. This is why the UK didn't need any law change when in 2010 they also started deporting and banning those EU citizens and their family members if the EU citizen was not a qualified person.
I'm not, I already explained in my previous post, they don't force an EEA national to leave the country because they are not a qualified person.
EU law allowing EU citizens to be deported is also why Germany intends to use that to instantly deport and ban EUs and their families for 5 years if they steal benefits from another EEA country. Merkel said she is confident she will get that past human rights laws.
If they steal benefits they are criminals and can be deported.
The NHS will make them give birth in the streets! But they will now be billed and can now be chased for this debt in other EU countries and from April 2015 have 25% added to their bill plus any further charges incurred in chasing that debt. Plus their own EU country can now pay for some of their maternity care. Under the UK law change in April, the NHS must now bill them or their NHS trust will be fined. The NHS trust gets to keep all the money from the bill including the 25% they add on.
They receive, anti natal care, post natal care, social services involvement and no bill, in fact social services keep them in lodgings and give them money for food.
For the non-EUs the UK has other new laws that came in. Any NHS total bill of 1k and over that is not paid means no visa to remain or to enter the UK until they pay in full. From April they get 50% added to their NHS bill if they don’t use insurance to pay and the NHS trust can keep that too. The NHS report debtors to UKVI.
It's all very clear for EU migrants as long as they keep up to date with all the UK changes, which they are meant to do if they live in another EEA country.
Your post is full of speculation and theory, I find it quite rambling and not grasping social security law which is what the OP was asking.The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed. Steve Biko0 -
:rotfl: May I suggest you edit and insert the word 'not' in your post... lol
Just did it:rotfl:At least you read my massive post:j
Will any western country refuse to let them in a hospital for birth? Although like those other countries, the UK will now also bill them if they aren't allowed to use the NHS for free.
I really don't undserstand why EEA migrants and their families find the EU rules so hard. Most of these changes in the UK came in 5 years ago!
This years changes to close the last of the loopholes for EU migrants: in April for the self employed qualified persons (must earn a set amount each week to be a qualified) and in June for the family members of student qualified person (no free NHS) were on the government site in plain english (not legal jargon).
The UK government have already said to expect more immigration changes this year, so EU migrants should keep up to date. On the non-EU immigration sites for the skilled immigrants, they are well aware of any change as soon as it is posted or even being mulled over.RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
Your post is full of speculation and theory, I find it quite rambling and not grasping social security law which is what the OP was asking.
If you find it confusing it is because as I have already said, you are are confusing EU treaty rights of free movement, with other immigration laws and human rights law. As you seem to think this is "speculation" then you clearly haven't kept up to date with EU migrants free movement changes in the UK as those changes are all in force..
I answered the OPs benefit questions for EU migrants and cleary explained (at least I hope I did) some of the free movement rights to be allowed to reside in the UK.
Another example of different laws is the new Good Character requirements the UK brought in December 2014 for British citizenship, which means that from that date the UK will now look back at applicants 10 year history including any benefits, taxes, immigration history and the claims they made on those, criminal activity, any cautions, driving offenses etc.
Under this change some will have to wait longer for citizenship. Some will now have to wait 10 years for British citizenship i.e. if they were illegal or overstayed more than 28 days. Some will now never be granted British citizenship because of their criminal history. Those that used deception on their application will be banned for 10 years. EU laws do not override this, neither does human rights laws because British citizenship is discretionary and not a right; and can now be removed very easily under the UK's Immigration Act 2014: which again is not governed by human rights or EU laws.
Re your post about which immigrants you said the UK can't deport, I assume you saw that the UK amended the appeal rights for those trying to use human rights to stay in the UK, under that Immigration Act 2014 again? As said, EU laws allow EEA countries to deport, they had to or esle no country would have signed up to them!RENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0 -
missmoneypenny: Will any of these new rules get rid of the Big Issue sellers who sell a couple of copies a week?0
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It will be interesting if the OP returns to update on what his girlfriend and her son receive from DWP when they get here. Hopefully she has enough savings to pay their way while she looks for work, or of course a return ticket.0
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This will help the OP for his EU citizen girlfriend and about how long an EU citizen can stay. It might also help jetplane who doesn't seem to believe the UK removes EU citizens and/or their "family members" as the UK is allowed to do under EU law; and does.
"Instructions for assessing whether to administratively remove an EEA national [or afamily member of an EEA national"
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/435903/Ch50EEA_V7_1_EXT_16062015.pdfRENTING? Have you checked to see that your landlord has permission from their mortgage lender to rent the property? If not, you could be thrown out with very little notice.
Read the sticky on the House Buying, Renting & Selling board.0
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