Morrisons Milk for Farmers

leveller2911

snowcat75 wrote: »

leveller2911 wrote: »

If its that easy and there's Soo much money in farming, then buy yourself some land and live on those big subsidy cheques. (although with 75% of my holding being non eligible The BPS might just get me to next month)

Have you checked the current prices of land lately?. The price per acre has been on a steady rise for the past few years dependant on the grade/quality. Now if there wasn't money to be made in Farming there would be a glut of land on the market, prices would have dropped and nor risen.

Not ALL farms receive BPS, and as we are big exporters especially of oilseeds and cereals We DO need to remain part of the EU.


Not all business are the same, don't generalise unless you've actually walked in another mans shoes.

In 2 of my previous posts (#20 and #38) I mentioned there are genuine cases of hardship in farming such as hill faring and small holdings ,so not really generalising.

Not ALL farms receive BPS, and as we are big exporters especially of oilseeds and cereals We DO need to remain part of the EU.

So given the fact that the UK cannot make its own trade agreements with countries such as Brazil,Australia,New Zealand, China etc because the EU makes those trade agreements you think the EU will get the best deals for the UK?. Before we were memebrs of the EU were the crops in the fields still harvested? yes of coarse they were so its a complete red herring to say we need to stay in because we couldn't do without the EU cheap labour or the prices would rise because the EU gets a better trade deal for the UK than the UK could gets for itself.

You still haven't come up with a good reason why the taxpayers should subsidise farming when they don't subsidise other industries such as mining,haulage,fishing,construction etc etc etc. There are thousands upon thousands of businesses out there that don't get benefits and make money in the same way that farming does. The haulage industry is in a far worse situation than farming and they get zip all help from the government. In fact Poland now accounts for over 20% of all haulage across the EU.

The farming (as a whole) in the EU and UK is a joke, its laughable and not a single farmer has come up with a genuine reason why farmers should be treated as "special" compared to everyone else.Go back a couple of years or so and 70% of the entire EU budget went to famers and even now its over 50% of all the money raised from EU member states goes on handouts to farmers and this is just not right, its immoral in fact. No wonder UK farmers say we need to stay in the EU, if we came out who would pay their benefit money?. Turkeys don;t vote for Christmas and we will never agree on this.

leveller2911

snowcat75 wrote: »

leveller2911 wrote: »

If its that easy and there's Soo much money in farming, then buy yourself some land and live on those big subsidy cheques. (although with 75% of my holding being non eligible The BPS might just get me to next month)

Have you checked the current prices of land lately?. The price per acre has been on a steady rise for the past few years dependant on the grade/quality. Now if there wasn't money to be made in Farming there would be a glut of land on the market, prices would have dropped and not risen like they have.You and I both know people buy land purely for the subsidies they attract.

Not ALL farms receive BPS, and as we are big exporters especially of oilseeds and cereals We DO need to remain part of the EU.


Not all business are the same, don't generalise unless you've actually walked in another mans shoes.

In 2 of my previous posts (#20 and #38) I mentioned there are genuine cases of hardship in farming such as hill farming and small holdings .

Not ALL farms receive BPS, and as we are big exporters especially of oilseeds and cereals We DO need to remain part of the EU.

So given the fact that the UK cannot make its own trade agreements with countries such as Brazil,Australia,New Zealand, China etc because the EU makes those trade agreements you think the EU will get the best deals for the UK?. Before we were memebrs of the EU were the crops in the fields still harvested? yes of coarse they were so its a complete red herring to say we need to stay in because we couldn't do without the EU cheap labour or the prices would rise because the EU gets a better trade deal for the UK than the UK could gets for itself.

You still haven't come up with a good reason why the taxpayers should subsidise farming when they don't subsidise other industries such as mining,haulage,fishing,construction etc etc etc. There are thousands upon thousands of businesses out there that don't get benefits and make money in the same way that farming does. The haulage industry is in a far worse situation than farming and they get zip all help from the government. In fact Poland now accounts for over 20% of all haulage across the EU.

The farming (as a whole) in the EU and UK is a joke, its laughable and not a single farmer has come up with a genuine reason why farmers should be treated as "special" compared to everyone else.Go back a couple of years or so and 70% of the entire EU budget went to famers and even now its over 50% of all the money raised from EU member states goes on handouts to farmers and this is just not right, its immoral in fact. No wonder UK farmers say we need to stay in the EU, if we came out who would pay their benefit money?. Turkeys don;t vote for Christmas and we will never agree on this.

leveller2911

snowcat75 wrote: »

leveller2911 wrote: »

If its that easy and there's Soo much money in farming, then buy yourself some land and live on those big subsidy cheques. (although with 75% of my holding being non eligible The BPS might just get me to next month)

Have you checked the current prices of land lately?. The price per acre has been on a steady rise for the past few years dependant on the grade/quality. Now if there wasn't money to be made in Farming there would be a glut of land on the market, prices would have dropped and not risen like they have.

Not ALL farms receive BPS, and as we are big exporters especially of oilseeds and cereals We DO need to remain part of the EU.


Not all business are the same, don't generalise unless you've actually walked in another mans shoes.

In 2 of my previous posts (#20 and #38) I mentioned there are genuine cases of hardship in farming such as hill faring and small holdings ,so not really generalising.

Not ALL farms receive BPS, and as we are big exporters especially of oilseeds and cereals We DO need to remain part of the EU.

So given the fact that the UK cannot make its own trade agreements with countries such as Brazil,Australia,New Zealand, China etc because the EU makes those trade agreements you think the EU will get the best deals for the UK?. Before we were memebrs of the EU were the crops in the fields still harvested? yes of coarse they were so its a complete red herring to say we need to stay in because we couldn't do without the EU cheap labour or the prices would rise because the EU gets a better trade deal for the UK than the UK could gets for itself.

You still haven't come up with a good reason why the taxpayers should subsidise farming when they don't subsidise other industries such as mining,haulage,fishing,construction etc etc etc. There are thousands upon thousands of businesses out there that don't get benefits and make money in the same way that farming does. The haulage industry is in a far worse situation than farming and they get zip all help from the government. In fact Poland now accounts for over 20% of all haulage across the EU.

The farming (as a whole) in the EU and UK is a joke, its laughable and not a single farmer has come up with a genuine reason why farmers should be treated as "special" compared to everyone else.Go back to the 80's and 70% of the entire EU budget went to farmers and even now its over 40% of all the money raised from EU member states goes on handouts to farmers even though farming forms only 1.5% of the EU production, its immoral in fact. No wonder UK farmers say we need to stay in the EU, if we came out who would pay their benefit money?. Turkeys don;t vote for Christmas and we will never agree on this.

pendragon_arther

If this was France the farmers would be treated like gods.

ryder72

Yes France - the capitalist heaven. Land of low employment growth. Socialist paradise.

warmhands.coldheart

Leveller. you clearly are not a fan of the farmers !! :rotfl:
The Farming Industry is a very complex one and I could sit and type here all day of the complexities of it that I loosely know of. It's not straight forward

As a Farmers son who grew up working on said farm but now working in the Engineering Industry I can see it from both angles.

From the consumers side of things, of course you are going to pay for the most affordable food you can buy..... why wouldn't you, it makes complete economic sense..... Why pay more for something than you have to? You really can't blame the consumer for low prices can you.... The world is now a global market, you can buy Strawberries, Raspberries, Banana's and lots of other "Perishable" goods in a supermarket all year round now. Stuff is just flown in from all around the world..... No problem...
Consumers are not interested in the complaints of the farmers.. Farmers are always complaining... that's all they know and for what reason.... they own land, why not just sell some is the usual response.....
Whenever the farmers do things like the recent protests at the supermarkets they always seem to turn up in their nice BIG New tractors (Even if it is essentially owned by the bank).... not the crappy old rusty one they use to scrape the yard.. and so the consumer sees on TV all these big fancy clean tractors outside a supermarket with farmers complaining they have no money....... now would you believe them? I think some times farmers are their own worst enemies !!!


From the farmers side of things. the markets that they operate in have changed hugely in the last 30 odd years and probably more substantially in the last 10~15 years.. It's now a Global Market and they have been too slow to adapt.... not enough young people have come into the industry and the older farmers have been slow to adopt new technology or hand the farms over to their son/daughters who may have fresh ideas... They just tend not to like change....

I think what frustrates UK Farmers a lot too is that they also operate at the hands of so much EU and customer (Processer & Supermarket) regulation which a lot of other imported food does not have to meet but they do not get the appropriate financial recognition for it. The UK operates under a very strict policy of tractability enforced partly by the EU (which all EU countries in theory have to meet) but also additional regulation from processers (farm to fork) driven by the supermarkets as "that's what customers want". You can literally pick up a packet of burgers in Tesco and if required, trace the product the entire way back through the processing of the meet to the farm it was reared to the farm and indeed day it was born
Try tracing the origins of your Brazilian produced frozen beef burgers back to the original farm!!!

On subsidies...... That's a worldwide problem... not just EU. There is NO (Baring New Zealand) country in the world which does not subsidise it's agricultural industry..... NONE ! and that is the crux of it.. the EU subsidises it's farmers to keep them competitive with the US, South America, Africa, Australia,.... you name it..... If the EU wanted to do away with subsidies, they would have to introduce huge levies on imported foods from outside the EU to counter this... Personally it wouldn't be a bad thing in my view as it would seriously streamline the EU.

I've only brushed on some areas here... I could go on...

But needless to say.. It is NOT a simple industry or a simple case of "Supply & Demand"

ryder72

One side effect of these subsidies is the effect it has on farmers in poorer countries. I have seen this first hand when tin on European subsidised tomatoes from Italy are cheaper to import into South Africa than locally produced and tinned tomatoes. It keeps farmers in third world countries in permanent poverty.

Its time the farming industry is brought in line with the rest and made to earn its keep. It will be cruel and a potential bloodbath, but its got to be done.

warmhands.coldheart

ryder72 wrote: »

One side effect of these subsidies is the effect it has on farmers in poorer countries. I have seen this first hand when tin on European subsidised tomatoes from Italy are cheaper to import into South Africa than locally produced and tinned tomatoes. It keeps farmers in third world countries in permanent poverty.

Its time the farming industry is brought in line with the rest and made to earn its keep. It will be cruel and a potential bloodbath, but its got to be done.

In many way's I'd agree but again would NOT be that straight forward.
There are many chemicals, steroids, medicines and Indeed GM crops and substances that are OK'ed by some governments to use in their countries which are banned here in Europe.. How do you regulates for that? There will ALWAYS be complexities in world wide food production that are not seen in many other industries.....
Eg. If some dodgy mining company in Africa uses chemicals other companies in western companies ban to get gold from the ore. most turn a blind eye to it as the gold in general will be unaffected so wont effect you or me if we wear it..... If said same country is using steroids in it's meat production or pesticides and chemicals on it's fruit/veg banned in the EU due to potential side effects and that meat/veg/fruit is consumed by me/you..... that's a completely different scenario as it could have an effect on me/you. People/Governments tend to turn a blind eye to misdemeanours as long as it doesn't effect them...
Agriculture/Food production is one industry where it will....