Benefit cuts to hit more than 330,000 children

pmlindyloo

Alice312 wrote: »

Are all these benefit changes 10000% going to even happen.
I think the tax credit limit of 2 children will go ahead in 2017 and the £20000 benefit cap will too, but the tax credit thresholds coming down are going to have a knock on effect. So many people are going to be in terrible circumstances.
The £7.20 living wage is ridiculous, i work and claim tax credits (I use it to pay towards my childcare bill) and am not old enough to get this 'living wage' so I'll be losing nearly about 2.8k a year.

Yes, people will have to make adjustments. In your case if you up your hours to 16 then you will get help towards your childcare.

bloolagoon

Alice312 wrote: »

Are all these benefit changes 10000% going to even happen.
I think the tax credit limit of 2 children will go ahead in 2017 and the £20000 benefit cap will too, but the tax credit thresholds coming down are going to have a knock on effect. So many people are going to be in terrible circumstances.
The £7.20 living wage is ridiculous, i work and claim tax credits (I use it to pay towards my childcare bill) and am not old enough to get this 'living wage' so I'll be losing nearly about 2.8k a year.

People will have to adjust but you have to realise that though you think it's unpopular it has a lot of support.

zagfles

rogerblack wrote: »

I have not found the legal provision that says this.
The relevant regulations seem to be:


http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/part/7#text%3D%22benefit%20cap%22

The amount is 1517 for a single person. A 56 hour week at the NMW.

This would seem to say here is no grace period at all for people earning even considerably more than the NMW full-time.

(note this was 2013, the figure used for NMW is 6.31)

That makes no sense at all, it can't be right. So I had a look at the legislation you quoted.

You're looking at the paragraph 1(a) of section 79, not paragraph 1(a) of the section you quoted, section 82 !!

Quoting the full section 82:

Exceptions - earnings

82.—(1) The benefit cap does not apply to an award of universal credit in relation to an assessment period where—

(a)the claimant's earned income or, if the claimant is a member of a couple, the couple's combined earned income, is equal to or exceeds £430; or

(b)the assessment period falls within a grace period or is an assessment period in which a grace period begins or ends.

(2) A grace period is a period of 9 consecutive months that begins on the most recent of the following days in respect of which the condition in paragraph (3) is met—

(a)a day falling within the current period of entitlement to universal credit which is the first day of an assessment period in which the claimant's earned income (or, if the claimant is a member of a couple, the couple's combined earned income) is less than the amount mentioned in paragraph (1)(a);

(b)a day falling before the current period of entitlement to universal credit which is the day after a day on which the claimant has ceased paid work.

(3) The condition is that, in each of the 12 months immediately preceding that day, the claimant's earned income or, if the claimant was a member of a couple, the couple's combined earned income was equal to or exceeded the amount mentioned in paragraph (1)(a).

(4) “Earned income” for the purposes of this regulation does not include income a person is treated as having by virtue of regulation 62 (minimum income floor).

So the figure in 1(a) is £430. Less than 16 hours at the 2013 NMW.

That makes sense.

bloolagoon

zagfles wrote: »

That makes no sense at all, it can't be right. So I had a look at the legislation you quoted.

You're looking at the paragraph 1(a) of section 79, not paragraph 1(a) of the section you quoted, section 82 !!

Quoting the full section 82:

So the figure in 1(a) is £430. Less than 16 hours at the 2013 NMW.

That makes sense.

I did wonder but couldn't find the source for the amount roger specified. That makes more sense

rogerblack

bloolagoon wrote: »

I did wonder but couldn't find the source for the amount roger specified. That makes more sense

Thanks for the catch - original post edited.

So the actual position is that someone working 16 hours NMW a week for the last year is protected - unless in any month of that year they did 2 fewer hours than normal.

Someone on 40*NMW is protected up to a couple of weeks off.

But no earnings in the other months count - once you drop below 430 earnings for any month.

(the above assumes that the thresholds above have been, and will continue to be uprated with the NMW increases)

roje

SnooksNJ wrote: »

If you want everyone to be equal perhaps you would be better off moving to a more caring country like China or North Korea.

Nothing like reasoned debate, eh? :rotfl:

roje

FBaby wrote: »

I am in a cynical mood, but frankly, it is posts like yours that I find desparing. I don't have an issue with investing in the future but investing in children who are learning that you can get the same than those who work hard by doing little is unlikely to yield the sharing community you seem to believe in. This mindset is already getting so ingrained in the new generation, it would certainly take the direction of an epidemic if the governement didn't finally realised it needed to stop.
Back to my post about school trip: you have those children whose parents work hard, have not been there to pick up the kids from school because they worked, not there to do fun things during the holidays because their parents had to work, and yet are told they can't enjoy all the expensive activities. Then you have the children whose mum and dads got to take them and pick them up everyday, no long days in wrap around clubs for them, no boring holiday clubs, and the bonus, they get to pick all the most fun activities. What do you think those children learn? That unlike their parents, they are going to aspire for a high paid job?

What exactly are you talking about? What are these activities that only kids from poor families are doing? In most schools, all children have to pay for school trips whatever the household income. Many schools offer families the option to pay in installments if they need to but everyone pays.

" learning that you can get the same than those who work hard by doing little "

Again, what are you talking about? My post was about parents WORKING FULL TIME who are still struggling to afford to feed and clothe their children. They are providing a work ethic to their kids and getting very little in return. Tax credits provided a little dignity to low income workers, but hey, let's just remove it all from them. Are you sure that setting the example that no matter how hard you work, you can have nothing and no one in society cares about that is going to raise a generation of hopeful, inspired youngsters? :undecided

FBaby

What exactly are you talking about? What are these activities that only kids from poor families are doing? In most schools, all children have to pay for school trips whatever the household income. Many schools offer families the option to pay in installments if they need to but everyone pays.

In my school, activities organised by the school are free to those whose parents are on benefits, however, you are perfectly right, this is about parents on benefits, not those relying on tax credits.

Again, what are you talking about? My post was about parents WORKING FULL TIME who are still struggling to afford to feed and clothe their children. They are providing a work ethic to their kids and getting very little in return. Tax credits provided a little dignity to low income workers, but hey, let's just remove it all from them.

I totally agree with you on the principle, but don't agree when we are talking about parents who only work 24 hours as a couple. Parents working full-time? I don't know any family where both parents work full-time who rely on tax credits, unless they have children in childcare, and in that case, even though it does mean struggling, it is only for a few years until the free childcare kicks in, that is of course unless you have many children.

bloolagoon

roje wrote: »

What exactly are you talking about? What are these activities that only kids from poor families are doing? In most schools, all children have to pay for school trips whatever the household income. Many schools offer families the option to pay in installments if they need to but everyone pays.

" learning that you can get the same than those who work hard by doing little "

Again, what are you talking about? My post was about parents WORKING FULL TIME who are still struggling to afford to feed and clothe their children. They are providing a work ethic to their kids and getting very little in return. Tax credits provided a little dignity to low income workers, but hey, let's just remove it all from them. Are you sure that setting the example that no matter how hard you work, you can have nothing and no one in society cares about that is going to raise a generation of hopeful, inspired youngsters? :undecided

Problem is quite a few aren't working full time. It's part time and 1 worker per couple with some having large families propped up by tax credits. I have sympathy for the fully employed but people worked as minimum hours as they could and those spoiled it. I'd rather have seen a limit now on 2 children and conditionality applied rather than how they've done this but they did need to change.

wiltsguy_2

Alice312 wrote: »

Are all these benefit changes 10000% going to even happen.
I think the tax credit limit of 2 children will go ahead in 2017 and the £20000 benefit cap will too, but the tax credit thresholds coming down are going to have a knock on effect. So many people are going to be in terrible circumstances.
The £7.20 living wage is ridiculous, i work and claim tax credits (I use it to pay towards my childcare bill) and am not old enough to get this 'living wage' so I'll be losing nearly about 2.8k a year.

yes its going to happen, and as already said it has more support for these cuts than against.

£2800 per annum is about £233 pm, careful budgets and planning is the best way forward tbh. There is a post in another thread about how someone has already making the savings, plus the advice you can get from this forum can really help in saving money/clearing debt