Green Belt Planning Permission?

Doozergirl

freshfruitbandit wrote: »

You are commenting emphatically on something you know very little about. If making rude comments on the internet and trying to 'wind people up' from behind a keyboard is a chosen pastime of yours then i'll refrain from interacting with you at all the the future.

And that would be a shame, as Davesnave is simply engaging you. He is a kind and valuable contributor and I respect his opinion a great deal. Ultimately, that is all this forum is, but I wouldn't take offense. Once you hit the planners, you'll be ripping your hair out. They will not give you an easy ride.

Davesnave

Thanks Doozer.

As I see it, the functionof this part of the site is largely determined by its users, but it's not usually a 'feel good' section where posters pat each other on the back.

If someone comes here to run a controversial proposal past us, it's entirely proper that we treat it as such and probe them hard. We aren't here to say "Well done, great idea."

In this case, the poster used one or two phrases which immediately rang alarm bells, so I focused on that. On reflection, perhaps I was a little too mischievous, but as you say, no one in planning is going to give them an easy ride either.

The message is clear: mind your language!

lessonlearned

Thanks for,this thread, most interesting.

I am in a similar position.

I have a nice plot of land gifted to me by my father so I'm following this thread with great interesr.

The land is not technically green belt but does have issues with occasionally flooding. I believe there is an engineering solution but am doing my research before I even approach the planners.

I viewed a plot at the weekend which has been granted permission, it was a very difficult sloping site, built into a high bank. The issues regarding access were extremely difficult and complex, and yet pp has been granted. This was green belt.

My land by comoarison is a doddle for access.

Fruitbat - don't take the huff at Daves posts. He knows his stuff, is very experienced and I find his thoughts and advice to be invaluable.

His comment about "using the right language" to the planners is absolutely spot on.

I have worked in the construction industry for decades, I have recently had dealings with conservation officers whilst renovating a Grade II listed building. You do indeed have to speak their language - - its absolutely vital if you want to get them on board.

I shall be doing exactly what Dave has suggested, I shall be using an architect to make my planning application.

In fact I am just "testing" one at the moment. My builder has recommended an architect who my sister has currently engaged to do an extension for her.

If he shapes up I shall be approaching him to act for me.

Daves replies might be a bit "robust" but they are made in good spirit and always with humour, Don't take offence, but heed his pearls of wisdom.

One of my sons is a research engineer in the field of alternative energy (I cannot be more specific - rules of industrial espionage and intellectual property rights at work here) and my other son is "Mr Gadget", I am also a keen conservationist with an evangelical zeal for innovation, design and technology. My late husband was a geologist with a keen interest in ecology and conservation.

We are determined to go down the echo build route but you have to tread warily with some planning authorities. Not all of them "get it" or have much in the way of vision.

My advice is don't waste your time and effort trying to go it alone. As an amateur you can waste years and money. Get some good professionals on your team.

Your comment about developers buying the land and building 4 small units as opposed to your plan of one larger house on a substantial plot of land is very interesting and, I have to say, very revealing about your motives.

Obviously you are wanting to fulfill a dream, which is fair enough.However, don't slag off the developers. We desperately need smaller Eco builds, they should not just be the preserve of the rich, they should be accessible to all.

My city council is actually very forward thinking and actively encourages Eco building. There have been several new Eco developments in and around our city, using both brown and green sites, building smaller units.

Take a look at the "tiny house movement" for ideas on innovative techniques and designs. I'm not suggesting you need to live in a tI tiny house in order to be Eco friendly but there's a lot we can learn from the ideas behind this movement.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

Piggywiggy

Some people just don't like hearing what they didn't want to hear.

Eco house or not you are very very unlikely to get planning permission.

lessonlearned

freshfruitbandit wrote: »

Yes but I fear I have a greater chance of planning approval if I were to build 10 new smaller eco homes on the land instead, despite the many serious negatives that would come with that option. That's what I'd be doing if it were about profits, but it's not, it's about creating and remarkable and special home and environment for me and my family.

We shall see.

It's about your own personal dream........which is absolutely fine.

But whatever you do don't pitch it this way to your local authority.

Don't slag off developers for building smaller units. We desperately need smaller Eco builds for "ordinary" folk.

Good design and practical sensible Eco builds should not only be available to those who can afford the luxury of their own personal "grand design".

As for developers making a profit........well of course they need to make money out of their endeavours......Profit is not a dirty word.

Davesnave

lessonlearned wrote: »

Good design and practical sensible Eco builds should not only be available to those who can afford the luxury of their own personal "grand design".

Agreed, which is why I suggested looking at the possibilities of non-tradtional barns, on which planning for conversion has been relaxed somewhat, although I've heard only around 50% of local authorities are currently on-board with the government regarding this.

The sort of thing I mean is the typical Atcost structure, with little or no architectural merit. The type of building that was never considered before.

New laws do allow for 'substantial replacement' to meet structural and energy targets on these, so this could be a cheaper way into countryside living for those willing to take on redundant buildings; effectively the brownfield sites of the countryside.

freshfruitbandit

lessonlearned wrote: »

Thanks for,this thread, most interesting.

I am in a similar position.

I have a nice plot of land gifted to me by my father so I'm following this thread with great interesr.

The land is not technically green belt but does have issues with occasionally flooding. I believe there is an engineering solution but am doing my research before I even approach the planners.

I viewed a plot at the weekend which has been granted permission, it was a very difficult sloping site, built into a high bank. The issues regarding access were extremely difficult and complex, and yet pp has been granted. This was green belt.

My land by comoarison is a doddle for access.

Fruitbat - don't take the huff at Daves posts. He knows his stuff, is very experienced and I find his thoughts and advice to be invaluable.

His comment about "using the right language" to the planners is absolutely spot on.

I have worked in the construction industry for decades, I have recently had dealings with conservation officers whilst renovating a Grade II listed building. You do indeed have to speak their language - - its absolutely vital if you want to get them on board.

I shall be doing exactly what Dave has suggested, I shall be using an architect to make my planning application.

In fact I am just "testing" one at the moment. My builder has recommended an architect who my sister has currently engaged to do an extension for her.

If he shapes up I shall be approaching him to act for me.

Daves replies might be a bit "robust" but they are made in good spirit and always with humour, Don't take offence, but heed his pearls of wisdom.

One of my sons is a research engineer in the field of alternative energy (I cannot be more specific - rules of industrial espionage and intellectual property rights at work here) and my other son is "Mr Gadget", I am also a keen conservationist with an evangelical zeal for innovation, design and technology. My late husband was a geologist with a keen interest in ecology and conservation.

We are determined to go down the echo build route but you have to tread warily with some planning authorities. Not all of them "get it" or have much in the way of vision.

My advice is don't waste your time and effort trying to go it alone. As an amateur you can waste years and money. Get some good professionals on your team.

Your comment about developers buying the land and building 4 small units as opposed to your plan of one larger house on a substantial plot of land is very interesting and, I have to say, very revealing about your motives.

Obviously you are wanting to fulfill a dream, which is fair enough.However, don't slag off the developers. We desperately need smaller Eco builds, they should not just be the preserve of the rich, they should be accessible to all.

My city council is actually very forward thinking and actively encourages Eco building. There have been several new Eco developments in and around our city, using both brown and green sites, building smaller units.

Take a look at the "tiny house movement" for ideas on innovative techniques and designs. I'm not suggesting you need to live in a tI tiny house in order to be Eco friendly but there's a lot we can learn from the ideas behind this movement.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress.

Appreciate the comments and time taken to reply. I'm afraid i don't use internet forums much and there are a lot of time wasting rude people out there, so if i think someone is being rude or has an unhelpful agenda i just ignore them pretty quickly.

I have absolutely no intention of going it alone and already know the architect i would use who has had significant success with getting planning on green belt in the past few years under Para 55. Two of them featured on Grand Designs.

My comments and the way i quickly phrase things on an internet forum would obviously not be the way things would be phrased in a planning application, i didn't realise people expect me to comment on here as you would in a planning application.

You are right, it is a dream but i also want it to be something others could use as a blueprint if you like for future developments in the area. For example where local waste can be recycled into something usable.

freshfruitbandit

Piggywiggy wrote: »

Some people just don't like hearing what they didn't want to hear.

Eco house or not you are very very unlikely to get planning permission.

What did i hear that i didn't want to?

Tell that to the large number of people living in inspirational and sustainable homes built on green belt land. Examples are everywhere. I'm under no illusion but with the right desire and design, i don't believe it's very very unlikely.

freshfruitbandit

lessonlearned wrote: »

It's about your own personal dream........which is absolutely fine.

But whatever you do don't pitch it this way to your local authority.

Don't slag off developers for building smaller units. We desperately need smaller Eco builds for "ordinary" folk.

Good design and practical sensible Eco builds should not only be available to those who can afford the luxury of their own personal "grand design".

As for developers making a profit........well of course they need to make money out of their endeavours......Profit is not a dirty word.

I havent slagged off any developers building eco homes. I seem to be getting criticised a lot for apparently saying things i've never said. I merely commented that building 8 smaller eco homes on the plot would bring significant problems and issues to the local area and residence. The increased traffic, noise etc on such a small road would be seriously problematic. People buy properties in this area as it's quiet.

Profit is not a dirty word, but developers building boring, uninspiring properties that do very little expect drain our resources and increase traffic and noise are, in my opinion a problem. To pay £500k for that, no way. Which is why i determined to prove that there are alternatives to this.

lessonlearned

freshfruitbandit wrote: »

I havent slagged off any developers building eco homes. I seem to be getting criticised a lot for apparently saying things i've never said. I merely commented that building 8 smaller eco homes on the plot would bring significant problems and issues to the local area and residence. The increased traffic, noise etc on such a small road would be seriously problematic. People buy properties in this area as it's quiet.

Profit is not a dirty word, but developers building boring, uninspiring properties that do very little expect drain our resources and increase traffic and noise are, in my opinion a problem. To pay £500k for that, no way. Which is why i determined to prove that there are alternatives to this.

My goodness but you are touchy. I am not criticising you, I am just pointing out some of the issues you face. I don't think anyone else on here has criticised you either.

I am trying to give you the benefit of my experience. So was Dave.

I have spent a lifetime working for developers, in fact now that I am retired I plan to carry on - although of course on a much smaller scale.

Most of the time it's not down to,the developers, they get very little choice about what they build......it's down to what the planners will allow.

Build line, roof treatments, window sizing and placement, the type and even colour of bricks used, even down to the colour of the front door.......these decisions are controlled by the local authority, not the developer.

and don't get my started on listed buildings and conservation areas. Some of the restrictions are utterly ludicrous.

I have lived in conservation areas myself and am currently helping my son renovaye a grade II listed Georgian house in a conservation area.
I know what I'm talking about.

Believe me Architects and developers would not built "boring boxes" if they were

A. Allowed to use their creative skills to better advantage

And

B. The general public were less conservative

They are often chomping at the bit to try and build something a bit different and a bit more innovative

Visit any vibrant city anywhere in the world and you will see fabulous architecture and wonderful developments. London has some of the most outstanding buildings in the world.

But then go into the UK countryside and try and build something innovative and dare I say it slightly "daring" and the locals will be up in arms. They will wail about it "not being in keeping" and spoiling the tone of the existing area., about spoiling their views, increasing noise and traffic, about being overrun by townies.

You complain that we are criticising you unfairly, we are not, we are pointing out some of the pitfalls and difficulties you are likely to face.

You moan about developers building 8 properties on a piece of land which you want to use for one dwelling. You say that the road is too small to,support the extra traffic. Surely once the builds are complete and the construction traffic has gone and all is peaceful again, then 8 new properties will not place too much of a strain on the infrastructure.

anyone would think I was talking about a development of 2500 houses. Now yes, that would have a serious environmental impact and would put intolerable pressure on local services.

Tbh that piece of land is more likely to be granted permission for 8 houses than it is for one. Sounds crazy but that's how the planning system works.......

And I really am not criticising you or blaming you for wanting the rural idyll........you are taking my remarks far too much to heart.

You might be lucky but as Dave has pointed out, you might have a better chance of securing your dream by looking at converting some existing agricultural buildings, or buying a house on a decent sized piece of land and knocking down the house and building to your own design.

The plot I viewed the other day had that option. Knock down the old cottage and rebuild a three bed Eco,home with granny annexe, or keep the cottage and build a smaller second property.

if you want my help and advice im more than happy to give it, but please stop taking offence and reading criticism where none is intended.

You are going to have toughen up when you start the planning process. They will chew you up and spit you out:rotfl:

And if you think we are being harsh, just wait till you start dealimg with building contractors and subbies.......

They will eat you for breakfast........