Can my wife claim?

FBaby

Most importantly, this paragraph:

Department of Health guidance for England is contained in ‘Guidance on implementing the overseas visitor hospital charging regulations’. Chapter 8 of the Guidance says:
‘Due to the severe health risks associated with conditions such as eclampsia and pre-eclampsia, and in order to protect the lives of both mother and unborn baby, all maternity services, including routine antenatal treatment, must be treated as being immediately necessary. No woman must ever be denied, or have delayed, maternity services due to charging issues. Although she must be informed if charges apply to her treatment, in doing so she should not be discouraged from receiving the remainder of her maternity treatment. Overseas Visitor Managers (OVMs) and clinicians should be especially careful to inform pregnant patients that further maternity healthcare will not be withheld, regardless of their ability to pay.

FBaby

pliusas wrote: »

We are not married, just living together as a couple more than 2 years. And he pays NI every month, earns £26k.

Sorry, I was responding to the OP although you might still find this helpful.

sleepless_saver

FBaby wrote: »

Most importantly, this paragraph:

And from Chapter 3 of the same document:

"If a patient is classed as ordinarily resident in the UK then the Charging Regulations cannot apply to them , even if the patient has only been in the UK for a few days or weeks. The Secretary of State has no powers to charge someone for NHS hospital treatment who is ordinarily resident in the UK. "

There follows a long discussion on what is meant by "ordinarily resident" and a link to a decision making tool. A non EEA citizen without indefinite leave to remain would never be considered ordinarily resident, but the OP's wife probably would - paras 3.7 on.

pmlindyloo

sleepless_saver wrote: »

And from Chapter 3 of the same document:

"If a patient is classed as ordinarily resident in the UK then the Charging Regulations cannot apply to them , even if the patient has only been in the UK for a few days or weeks. The Secretary of State has no powers to charge someone for NHS hospital treatment who is ordinarily resident in the UK. "

There follows a long discussion on what is meant by "ordinarily resident" and a link to a decision making tool. A non EEA citizen without indefinite leave to remain would never be considered ordinarily resident, but the OP's wife probably would - paras 3.7 on.

You beat me to it!

Have been doing extensive research on this as I just could not understand or agree with what some people have been saying.

NHS is not part of public funds.

To be eligible for free NHS care you need to be ordinarily resident.

The new regulations have changed the meaning for non EEA citizens. EEA citizens are not subject to immigration control and so the term 'not having indefinite leave to remain' doesn't apply

This also tallies with the CAB website link which someone kindly supplied.

Have spent hours looking up the legislation!

MissMoneypenny

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Have been doing extensive research on this as I just could not understand or agree with what some people have been saying.

Did you read the NHS part of the Immigration Act 2014 that I mentioned changed the NHS rules?

pmlindyloo wrote: »

NHS is not part of public funds.

To be eligible for free NHS care you need to be ordinarily resident.

The Immigration Act 2014 changed that, as I have already said. There is no free NHS for "ordinary resident" anymore. Look at the NHS paart of the Immigration Act 2014. That law changed the NHS so that from 6 April 2015 only settled persons (UK citizens, those with ILR/PR) can now have free NHS; with a few exceptions i.e. those married to UK military, Asylum seekers, Australians and New New Zealand citizens, those on a Tier 2 (ICT) visa and their dependants etc. Being an EU citizen isn't one of those exceptions the UK listed, because they come under EU law.

There is plendy on the press and thosands of hit in on the internet about this. Even hits on Cameron saying that the UK was too generous with it's health service and he was going to return it to the natioanl health service and not the international one it had become. His Immigration Act that became law in May 2014 did just that and for the NHS part of that law, it started 6 April 2015. There are hundred of thosands of hits on this on the internet.

Thats why (nearly all) of those who are ordinary resident in the UK now need to pay the Immigration Health Surcharge for visa applications from 6 April 2015. That also applies to those already in the UK who will need to apply for another visa to remain and wil keep applyong right up to ILR (when they are settled). This is all UK immigration law.

BUT as said, EU rules are different and the country can choose who they give free NHS to. They can also choose what a Qualified Person is. This has changed drastically since 2010 under the new goverment as as said, more changes came in this year for the self employed and dependants of EU students. Being an EU citizen in the UK does NOT mean the UK will give you free NHS. Working in the UK under EU laws (came with an EU citizen) does not give them free NHS either as they can only have what their EU citizen can have.

pmlindyloo wrote: »

The new regulations have changed the meaning for non EEA citizens. EEA citizens are not subject to immigration control

Not being subject to immigration control, means they have a right to can enter the UK: but we can only stay for 3 months to visit any EU country and after that we have to be exercising treaty rights and be a qualified person to stay. However non-EUs not using EU law can enter the UK and stay for up to 6 months under UK laws, unless they enter via Ireland when they can only have 3 months as they entered via the Common Travel Area(total time in RoI and the UK). Enter via the Uk and use the CTA to visit RoI and you7 can have up to 6 months to visit. The UK are RoI wisely did not join the EU Schengen Agreement.

As I said, from 2010 the UK has been deporting and banning EU citizens if they aren't a Qualified Person under treaty right for the UK. there are plenty of hits on that too. Not being subject to immigrtion control does not mean wqe can just live in another EU country. We have 3 months and that we must be a Qualified Person..

pmlindyloo wrote: »

and so the term 'not having indefinite leave to remain' doesn't apply

You are getting muddled. ILR doesn't apply to EU citizens because ILR is for those using UK immigration laws. PR is the EU equivilant of ILR. ILR and PR as "settled status" as is British citizenship too of course. Those with settled status, can use the NHS for free as long as they don't reside outside the UK (that changed from 6 April 2015 too) One of the requirments to be gratned UK citizenship is to have ILR (UK immigration laws) or PR (EU laws) although British ctizenship is discretionary and is nothing to do with the EU which stops at PR.

pmlindyloo wrote: »

Have spent hours looking up the legislation!

If you can't find all of this I'll look up some links later for you.

pmlindyloo

So you are referring to this?

Related provision: charges for health services
(1) A reference in the NHS charging provisions to persons not ordinarily resident
in Great Britain or persons not ordinarily resident in Northern Ireland includes
(without prejudice to the generality of that reference) a reference to—
(a) persons who require leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom
but do not have it, and
(b) persons who have leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom for
a limited period.

and EEA citizens come under (b)?

So to receive NHS you have to be a qualifying person to retain your right to NHS services after 3 months?

If this is the case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) then the OP's fiance/now wife came to the UK last year and is a self sufficient person as she has been supported by her fiance / then husband and so is a qualified person and entitled to free NHS care?

As an aside, all these new regulations do not seem to have actually come into force yet. Read that they are being trialled at the moment?

MissMoneypenny

FBaby wrote: »

Not sure why you have to -once again- refer to my personal situation. I am not posting on the basis of my own experience, so it's totally irrelevant.

Because you are giving out wrong information that could be very costly to EU citizens: which is why I said it was very, very different now to when you moved to the UK as an EU citizen.

Back then there was instant access to NHS, UK benefits, social housing for EUs and just residing in the UK for 5 years, even if in and out of work for 5 years or never worked, gave PR after 5 years.

Since 2010 new rules for EUs came in and they need to keep up to date with all the never ending changes that the UK keeps bringing in for them.

Now, even losing a job for a few weeks can mean a break in their 5 years residency for PR if they don't remain a 'qualified person' until they find another job. The UK is now very strict on them being a qualified person at all times if they want PR: one was just refused PR for not being a qualified prerson for 18 days of the five years.

By far the biggest refusals of PR posts, is becasue they didn't have health cover as they were not allowed to use the NHS for free. Many heard the NHS was free to use and thought that applied to them too, but under EU laws it wasn't free for them as under free movement we must not be a burden to another country.

The UK also now has criminalty laws that can prevent PR. Time in a UK jail now no longer counts as the 5 year residency for PR. What makes a Qualified Person has also changed with no more just living in ther UK for 5 years, for PR.

The changes means that many EUs are finding themselves homeless after living in the UK for years as they are no longer a qualified person under rules changes and the UK will no longer pay for them. They can't apply for PR as the UK has blocked that 'just residing in the UK for 5 years gives PR'.

Which quaified persons can use the NHS for free has been restricted again this year (twice). New laws now on overstaying for more than 28 days preventing British citizenship for 10 years, came in in December 2014 and is retropective. Hints on preventing EUs from being allowed to take state worker office jobs, so they must find a private employer.


It's never ending changes for those foreign nationals trying to live in the UK and get ILR/PR, unless they can do a job on the UKs shortages list or earn 154k +. Nothing like how easy it was before 2010, under the then Labour government.

beecher2

surely as the OP's wife is 6 months pregnant, she must already be aware of whether she is able to get NHS treatment, as she will have accessed prenatal care? Since that wasn't part of the original question, you have to assume she's being treated as a qualified person because she's married to a qualified person.

MissMoneypenny

pmlindyloo wrote: »

If this is the case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) then the OP's fiance/now wife came to the UK last year and is a self sufficient person as she has been supported by her fiance / then husband and so is a qualified person and entitled to free NHS care?

Those who qualify as a Self Sufficent person under treaty rights, must have CSI (Comprehensive Sickeness Insurance) to pay the NHS to be a self suffcient qualifed person. They need to use that to pay for the NHS as they cannot use the NHS for free because they must not be a burden to the EEA country they are being self sufficient in.

No welfare or healthcare for self sufficients or students qualified persons in the UK: the same for any foreign national dependants they bring to the UK with them under free movement.


This is why Brits who retire to Spain (under free movement self sufficient) need to buy health insurance from April 2015. If they are in receipt of a UK state pension, under EU rules they can get their own EEA country to pay for all their healthcare in another EEA country, by filling in an S1 form. Spain then claims all the cost back from the UK.

Until April 2015, any Brit retiree could get an S1 form for an EEA country even if they weren't in receipt of a UK state pension and get the UK to pay. Now they can't and have to buy their own health insurance to pay for healthcare as EEA countries don't have to give free healthcare to self sufficient qualified persons. The EEA country decides.

The UK stopped giving free NHS to self sufficient EUs about 2010. As the NHS had no way of checking (or NHS staff couldnt be bothered to do the paperwork to bill) before April 2015, many have still been able get free NHS when they should have paid the UK. It was costing the NHS millions per year, hence why the changes.

Someone posted on another site that the CAB have not updated their site. o.e. From April 2015 UK state pensioners who live outside the EEA, will no longer get free full NHS when they vistit the UK.

pmlindyloo

Thank you for your patience in trying to explain everything, MissM. Feel much more informed now.

Do you know whether these new regulations are being put into effect now or whether there are still consultations being done as to how this is going to work?