Indicating

NBLondon

I have noticed (In London) anyway that a certain percentage of drivers will honk before turning left if they see a pedestrian approaching the cross-street. Particularly council vehicles - as if they have been advised to do so from on high... Using Horn as indicator???


I've been looking online for the bit I remember about not always needing to indicate of you are in a filter lane but can't find it - so perhaps it was something I was once told by an instructor or an obsolete guide.


Agree with the point that you can't expect pedestrians to always know it's a filter lane.- round here, you can't expect pedestrians to even be looking in the direction of the traffic...

ElefantEd

There's never any disadvantage to indicating (assuming that you're doing it correctly) is there? So why not just do it anyway? Personally I always indicate, even if I am sure there is no-one to see it - better to get into the habit of doing it than having to choose. Because the signal is there for the person you haven't seen as well as for those who you have seen - drivers, cyclists, pedestrians. And even in the case of the filter lane where you don't have a choice, there's no guarantee that the driver behind you has realised this! OK, this means that half the time the signal has in fact been unnecessary but what have I lost by doing it anyway?

And yes, I always do mirrors, signal, manoeuvre, in that order.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

ElefantEd wrote: »

There's never any disadvantage to indicating (assuming that you're doing it correctly) is there? So why not just do it anyway? Personally I always indicate, even if I am sure there is no-one to see it - better to get into the habit of doing it than having to choose. Because the signal is there for the person you haven't seen as well as for those who you have seen - drivers, cyclists, pedestrians. And even in the case of the filter lane where you don't have a choice, there's no guarantee that the driver behind you has realised this! OK, this means that half the time the signal has in fact been unnecessary but what have I lost by doing it anyway?

And yes, I always do mirrors, signal, manoeuvre, in that order.

The Advanced Motoring answer to that is that it is a tool to help observation.

If you signal out of habit, even if it is correctly, then you do not have an aid to consider what is around you. If you have a decision as to whether to signal based on who may be around to observe you and be aided by the signal then you have given extra consideration. You should be looking for everyone who might be affected by your driving so there should be no overhead - but of course there is because most people have a very narrow view of what is going on, often just the bumper of the car in front.

I was a habitual signaller - my reasoning was that if I made a mistake then my signalling would protect me. Now I signal a whole lot less but give a lot more attention to what is going on.

ElefantEd

OK, interesting, making it a deliberate decision forces you to get the data to make the choice? I can't say I'm 100% in agreement with this theory, but I guess the AM people would know. Is there any research to back this up?

almillar

ElefantEd - I doubt there is, but the IAM test is based on the book 'Roadcraft' which is basically the police driving manual, so it's based on the way the police are taught to drive.
The problem with the advice 'don't indicate if nobody will benefit' is that it's for advanced, skilled drivers who are paying attention. It's fine for them, and of course it works but it's just a trick really to 'show off' to your examiner or whatever that you're paying attention.
The problem is that it trickles down to the kind of thing being discussed here - 'I don't need to indicate because there aren't any cars' - which is of course wrong. It can also catch you out if someone does appear from somehwhere and you have to rush it.
Bottom line - don't try to be clever or lazy, and just indicate.
I've done my IAM test and there are people on both sides of this, but the bottom line is - when not doing a test - just indicate - it's the foolproof advice.
I once applied to be a driving instructor and had a practical test. I passed someone on a dual carraigeway - indicated to pull out, but not to pull back in. It was in traffic, and I would have pulled in earlier than ideal, but not dangerously. The examiner said I should have indicated - I explained why I didn't, but the bottom line was - it would have been useful to the driver I'd just passed. So just go ahead and do it.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

almillar wrote: »

ElefantEd - I doubt there is, but the IAM test is based on the book 'Roadcraft' which is basically the police driving manual, so it's based on the way the police are taught to drive.
The problem with the advice 'don't indicate if nobody will benefit' is that it's for advanced, skilled drivers who are paying attention. It's fine for them, and of course it works but it's just a trick really to 'show off' to your examiner or whatever that you're paying attention.
The problem is that it trickles down to the kind of thing being discussed here - 'I don't need to indicate because there aren't any cars' - which is of course wrong. It can also catch you out if someone does appear from somehwhere and you have to rush it.
Bottom line - don't try to be clever or lazy, and just indicate.
I've done my IAM test and there are people on both sides of this, but the bottom line is - when not doing a test - just indicate - it's the foolproof advice.
I once applied to be a driving instructor and had a practical test. I passed someone on a dual carraigeway - indicated to pull out, but not to pull back in. It was in traffic, and I would have pulled in earlier than ideal, but not dangerously. The examiner said I should have indicated - I explained why I didn't, but the bottom line was - it would have been useful to the driver I'd just passed. So just go ahead and do it.

Yep. That is true of the whole Roadcraft system, both that people cherry pick elements without grasping that there is a complete system that if you do not follow you may come unstuck, and secondly it is not a rule book, more guidelines.

Roadcraft is not about optimal driving (as in the fastest way round the corner for example) but providing a systematic approach to driving that avoids you getting into problems, that you have an ingrained decision-making process where even in the ever changing road conditions, the system supports you making the right decision. The core of the system is observation, without observation you have not got the information to make correct decisions, so it is not unreasonable that the system should have support for good observation.

bigadaj

Did a defensive driving course thorough work a few years ago, instructor was an ex lorry driver I think but was just reading from the manual.

Myself and a colleague got into an argument with them about indicating ; theory is don'tif you don't need to and are observing. My point was that if someone is in blind spot, or similarly unobsrevable then at least if you indicate it gives some form of limited notice.

In theory you shouldn't ever be in such a situation but if it's an additional point that might help then probably worth doing. Not that I do indicate every time, but I do like playing devils advocate.

DominicH

NBLondon wrote: »

I have noticed (In London) anyway that a certain percentage of drivers will honk before turning left if they see a pedestrian approaching the cross-street. Particularly council vehicles - as if they have been advised to do so from on high... Using Horn as indicator???

That seems quite common in countries with more... chaotic prevailing road manners than ours. Not just to alert pedestrians, but also other cars. It's a form of defensive driving, I suppose - they assume, with some justification, that nobody ever checks their mirrors (and pedestrians may just wander gaily out into the street), so they blip the horn to alert people of their presence. That's why cities in countries like that are a constant cacophany of horns. Sometimes pedestrians get shirty if you don't blip the horn while passing them.

robbies_gal

Zandoni wrote: »

I'd rather people didn't signal at all when using roundabouts, rather than the amount of incorrect signalling I see.

so what do u do just go for it and hope for the best?

Zandoni

robbies_gal wrote: »

so what do u do just go for it and hope for the best?

On a roundabout you can usually see where people are going through there position. When people indicate incorrectly, which is extremely common who knows how it's going to end