Dartford Crossing

Radshire

Thanks jrtfan.
I agree with most of what you say. I do however believe that it is the organisation running the dart charge service that should pay for the signage - and not the local councils. I would wager a bet that the vast majority of the local residents would object to their council tax going to fund something that in no way benefits them!

My issue with waiting for them to issue the PCN is that they do so well after the deadline for the increase in charges. They need to issue PCNs within 24 hours of the deadline (the midnight after the midnight after IYSWIM) if they expect people to pay the lower penalty.

What I actually think is that they need to completely review the entire process. What is clear to me is that they are illconceived and this leads to the frustrations which we are sharing on this forum. It need not be so.

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jrtfan

Radshire wrote: »

Thanks jrtfan.
I agree with most of what you say. I do however believe that it is the organisation running the dart charge service that should pay for the signage - and not the local councils. I would wager a bet that the vast majority of the local residents would object to their council tax going to fund something that in no way benefits them!

My issue with waiting for them to issue the PCN is that they do so well after the deadline for the increase in charges. They need to issue PCNs within 24 hours of the deadline (the midnight after the midnight after IYSWIM) if they expect people to pay the lower penalty.

What I actually think is that they need to completely review the entire process. What is clear to me is that they are illconceived and this leads to the frustrations which we are sharing on this forum. It need not be so.

��

Speaking as one such local resident, I think your bet would be very safe!

Thinking back to my own fine earlier this year, the 14-day deadline for paying the lower penalty started either from the date the actual PCN was printed and sent out in the mail, or from the date I received it through the post. It wasn't from the date of the offence. Does this help?

fndyr

I registered my car back in January on an account. Got issued a PCN on 9th Sept for a return crossing on 27th August. Went online to find it only wanted to charge me £2.50. Not wishing to get penalised for not paying the fine, I rung them up to be told I had 19 outstanding charges, not one of which had been sent out to me dating back to April. Not sure how my account has been de-registered but worrying that they're not sending out PCN's for all offences. You could use this crossing every day, racking up thousands in fines and not know about it. I've had to pay again to register my vehicle and hope they don't lose it again.

Radshire

Thanks for sharing fndyr,
Another great example of a system which doesn't work.

At least when others are in a similar position, they can relate to this thread and see that the general advice is not to worry if it's a first offense.

To have 19 other charges which they had not issued PCN's for, not bothered to find out to whom they should be sent, just shows that some people are probably getting away with not paying at all......for you would not have known about these had you not been conscientious enough to phone and check!

sharealike

Like the OP we crossed but did not get round to paying until the weekend after. I never saw any signs about time limits or the actual charge. Busy looking what four lanes of fast moving traffic was up to. We live well up north so no local knowledge and were touring on holiday in a motor home. No particular route or times in mind when we left home three weeks earlier as we set off. Crossed south to north on Sept 6th and paid on their website Sept 13th. All seemed well and we received email confirmation of our payment from them. Brilliant. No Queue to pay, fumbling for change or credit cards while driving like on the French auto routes. Well now the trouble has started. Received a Warning Letter and Penalty Charge Notice dated Sept 25th. That's ELEVEN WORKING DAYS AFTER WE PAID. At the very top the letter says "Please read this letter carefully. This is an opportunity to pay your outstanding road user charge(s) and for the enclosed Penalty Charge Notice(s) to be cancelled". Next part says "Our records show that we have not received full valid payment of the road user charge for this crossing. For this reason and in accordance with .... you have been served with the enclosed PCN for £72.50. Includes the road user charge that is owed, £2.50". Clearly at the time of their writing their records were wrong. I followed down the letter to find how I paid the outstanding charge (if any). This and the confirmation of payment sent by email said to call them on 0300 300 0120 "if you have any questions about payment, contact Dart Charge". I selected option 5 - If you have received a PCN. Agent answered. Explained I had letter and PCN but had paid long before the PCN date (25th Sept). Asked me to pay the PCN. Confirmed they could see the payment we had made but said the PCN should be paid. When I asked why he said "because you did not pay within 24 hours". Explained we were travelling. "Then you must pay the user charge of £2.50". But we have paid and you confirm this? "Ah but you paid on the wrong part of the website". "You should have paid in the section for those having received a PCN". But we did not know we were getting a PCN when we paid for our crossing. We paid two weeks (ten working days) before the PCN issue date and even longer before it arrived. "Yes I can see that but you must pay me £2.50 for the crossing". But I have paid and you confirm that I have paid. "Ah but that payment was not valid because it was made on the wrong part of the website". "That payment will be held in credit for the next time you use the crossing". Explained I live up north and not thinking of using the crossing again in the near future. Well you must appeal by letter then. The PCN has been issued and you must pay it or appeal.
How can they admit they know I paid but want more money? How can they first try to get me to pay the £72.50 over the phone when the letter says I don't have to. He knew I had the letter but when challenged said I must pay £37.50? Then he climbs down and asks for the £2.50 or the PCN still stands. He surely knows it will cost me more than £2.50 to appeal the PCN. What ever the situation his tiered attempt of a confidence trick to make me pay him as much as I was willing at the time under threat of the PCN is extortion. Even if I paid him I don't trust another twist in the regulations such as they don't confirm I paid or something. Are the agents on a profit share or commission target or something?
I'm just an honest bloke going about his retirement trying to earn a good rest after years of hard work and pay my fair way. Now threatened with a CC judgement against me for doing nothing wrong. Seems I've drawn their fire by paying to early before the PCN arrived? Will I ever get that rest?

robbies_gal

i woul appeal that with the info that you already paid-although im not sure what the fine i for paying late

sharealike

robbies_gal wrote: »

i woul appeal that with the info that you already paid-although im not sure what the fine i for paying late

Yes that's what I'm inclined to do. Letter says fine for paying late first time is waived so long as I pay another £2.50 toll. I will never use the one now on credit so would be nice if the appeal accepted that as the payment it was meant to be for. Call centre agent advises me it can't be used for that though. I suspect that's because he's targeted to take something of me at least though. Wish my wife hadn't been so quick to pay in the end. Advice to others first time offending must be to just wait to see if PCN arrives with a letter waiving first offence. That's if they know they should have paid of course.


I just spoke to my wife and other members of the party who were with me at the time we crossed. None of us saw any signs advising how to pay or that it must be within 24 hours. Must say I would probably have been the only person looking out of the vehicle at that time.


Over three thousand miles through five countries paying tolls of all sorts via various methods. Tripped up within 100 miles of being back in blighty. Marvellous. I feel sorry for our guests from overseas who will be caught out big time. Road Tolls are administered correctly and clearly over there. I guess they won't bother to come back a second time.

Le_Kirk

There is a sign but you have to know it is there to see it!! If you are concentrating on driving, particularly through the road works and various changes of speed limits in place recently it is difficult to pick it up. It does say you have to pay before midnight of the day following your trip across/through the crossing. When the idea of ANPR payment was first raised I asked the question about how do people heading for the channel ports pay, they are not all (any) likely to carry laptops/iPads/tablets or smart phones and THEN be able to find a Wi-Fi spot to be able to pay!

The_Groat_Counter

Le_Kirk wrote: »

... When the idea of ANPR payment was first raised I asked the question about how do people heading for the channel ports pay, they are not all (any) likely to carry laptops/iPads/tablets or smart phones and THEN be able to find a Wi-Fi spot to be able to pay!

You can pay by calling them up on the phone:

www.gov.uk/pay-dartford-crossing-charge

0300 300 0120
(Every day, 5am to midnight)

03 numbers are charged the same as 01 or 02 numbers and are included as part of any inclusive minutes or time periods featured with mobile or landline packages.

iainscomputer

I agree with all your points, but just thought I would add a point about hire cars that you mentioned.
We hired a campervan in Oz, you can go online & register your card & vehicle registration/state. But the clever part was you can choose a start & finish time for your card to be charged for that particular vehicles tolls. We only had one toll, back over Sydney Harbour bridge & it was worth the cost just for the view!