ESA and Aspergers

emmeey

nannytone wrote: »

in all truth, getting into the support group is based very slimly on how disabled/ill a person is.
it is purely a cox ticking exercise.
if you meet one of the descriptors, then you're in.
fail to meet one of the descriptors and you've no chance.
i have mild aspergers, and am in the support group, but that is because i am blimnd. i didn't even bother putting the aspergers down for either ESA or DLA.
but as i said ... my aspergers is mild. i don't see that i have major issues apart from the liking for rigid routine and not liking to speak to people i don't know.
friends tell me I'm 'odd', but in an endearing way .
oh well .... thats ok then

I have major social anxiety issues, agraphobia etc, as well as chronic fatigue, Im really hoping they put me in the support group, there is no way I can go to those work related meetings etc, I don't leave my house ..

nannytone_2

emmeey wrote: »

I have major social anxiety issues, agraphobia etc, as well as chronic fatigue, Im really hoping they put me in the support group, there is no way I can go to those work related meetings etc, I don't leave my house ..

did you look at the descriptors and have these in mind during the completing of the form and the assessment?

the work focused interviews for people in the WRAG are not as fearsome as some would have you believe.
i was in the WRAG for 2 years before i most moved to the support group.
i only attended the job centre twice for an informal chat and then was never seen again, because they didn't know what to do with me.
you can ask for telephone interviews as well, although they are at the discretion of the disability advisor

Jarr_2

emmeey wrote: »

I have major social anxiety issues, agraphobia etc, as well as chronic fatigue, Im really hoping they put me in the support group, there is no way I can go to those work related meetings etc, I don't leave my house ..

Emmeey did you get a GP note for your ESA application? If so what did you say to your GP?

emmeey

Jarr wrote: »

Emmeey did you get a GP note for your ESA application? If so what did you say to your GP?

yes and no, I got a gp note, it explained my illnesses and diagnoses, but it was mainly to be allowed a home assessment, so stating that should I need an assessment I am not able to travel etc

Savvybuyer

Jarr wrote: »

Savvy-- Thank you. I feel like you really genuinely get it. I'm going to read and re-read all of your posts because it's really helpful. Thank you so much. You didn't write too much, you wrote exactly what I (and others maybe) need. I do know of PIP but I was certain it wasn't for me, maybe I misread it? I thought it was to do with having a carer, I don't need help in everyday life (family are helpful) but I need help getting into work.
[...]

Thank you - I think I "get it" because, like you, I have Asperger's and it is easier to understand if you have direct personal experience yourself (although the condition does affect different people with it differently so I can't assume to know precisely how it is for others).

PIP - nothing to do with having a carer. As it happens, I also get carer's allowance as the other person - relative who currently gets ESA (and DLA, which eventually become PIP) - that also has Asperger's (or has PDD-NOS whilst I have Asperger's etc.) is now being cared for by me. I have wondered about whether they should, in fact, also claim carer's allowance as they do provide support for me - it seems they cover the tasks that I don't whilst I cover the tasks - and prompting for them - that they don't - we work very well together and, in a way, both of us care for each other although only me, officially, is getting the carer's allowance. (I'm not asking other people on this thread to tell me whether they should get carer's allowance btw.)

Of the two of us, it's only me that is getting PIP and no-one else is getting carer's allowance for caring for me. I'm getting PIP - and I don't, officially, have a carer at the moment.

You say you don't need help in everyday life but I wonder whether, really, you do. I didn't think I needed much help in everyday life and, to be fair, I don't but I still qualify for PIP and I also wonder about whether "family are helpful" actually means that the rest of the family are providing help for you and that, therefore, you do need (their) help even if it is fairly minimal. If you didn't have the "helpful family" would you struggle - and, if so, therefore perhaps you do have more problems with everyday life than you realise - it is merely that some problems, at the moment, are being corrected, because of the family. If the family are providing help - think about that, maybe that is areas that you need help with - and are, fortunately, getting the help but those are, quite possibly, areas in which PIP is intended to apply.

Savvybuyer

Jarr wrote: »

[...]
Did you get a doctor's note? If so what did you say to your GP?

I do have my Asperger's diagnosis with the full (very very long) report from my Psychologist.

[...]

I did not get a doctor's note, but my personal circumstances are personal to me. My diagnosis happened to be made rather haphazardly and by pure chance/luck. I was referred from one place to another, originally because I was having stress/anxiety problems (and depression). Purely by chance, the referral to referral to referral led to a Professor who, as soon as I walked into the room and he saw me, his first question was "Do you have autism?" (A question that might well have offended any normal person but, me, lol:rotfl:, I thought it was an extremely reasonable question to ask - to which the answer might well be "yes".) He asked if I wanted a diagnosis. Again, purely by chance, I said yes. Had I said no, things would be completely completely different now. By the stage that I saw him, and how long the waiting list referrals took (in total, at that stage about a year of waiting before I'd even seen him) I'd gone so far in my depression and got worse and worse that I no longer cared if I was diagnosed. Oh and why not just add that on top to kick me down? I thought. I'd gone so far past it that I just replied yes, a sort of "oh what the hell, yes" response. I've been better ever since my diagnosis - which, for me, came as no surprise whatsoever as I knew already I had it, for about one week, from about 25 years before! Of course, I've always continued to have it since.

You will need your Asperger's diagnosis and send that with your completed PIP form. Need to start the claim for PIP over the phone and they will send you out the form. May be best to do this with support of an autism charity if available.

I completed my form with the help of the charity and I returned the form (and enclosed a copy of my diagnosis with it). I didn't get any doctor's note. I gave my GP's details I believe on the form so that the assessment people could get in contact with my GP for further info. about my diagnosis if required. I doubt they did do that: they had my form and the diagnosis was clear and enough it appears.

I think it's standard in any disability claim like this to give your doctor's details on the DWP forms so that they (or whoever on their behalf) can contact your doctor if need be to seek information about your illness or condition. It's a matter of filling in a written-down form - you don't have to say anything to the DWP about this on the telephone so, for us, this may make things easier. You provide the doctor's details and indicate if you consent to them being contacted for info. - I never have any problem with that and say yes - presumably if you say no, they may not be able to get medical details that might support your claim. It may be best to make your doctor aware that they may be contacted - but I doubt that's much of an issue and a pop to your surgery to inform the receptionist that DWP may be in touch as you have Asperger's disability for your disability claim or a quick word on the phone may do. One thing - it's sometimes best not to fall 'out of the loop' with your doctor. In other words, perhaps visit them about once a year or so even if just for a general medical check so that they know who you are and know enough info. about your medical conditions so that when DWP does contact them etc... I assume that your doctor is aware of your Asperger's diagnosis? (To some people, you may already have got over the hard part - it may be a struggle for some, particularly adults, to obtain diagnoses in the first place - some areas of the country do not make it as easy and don't have money to make diagnosing Asperger's in adults a priority - so, well done on obtaining the diagnosis in the first place. That is, now, I am sure, extremely helpful to your claim - I think it was crucial for mine and, for me, in my particular part of the country, delivered quick success.)

Jarr_2

Savvybuyer wrote: »

If you didn't have the "helpful family" would you struggle - and, if so, therefore perhaps you do have more problems with everyday life than you realise - it is merely that some problems, at the moment, are being corrected, because of the family.

I just realized the answer to this is a resounding yes. If it weren't for my family I would never.. do anything. At my Psychologist appointment my family member with me actually did tell the Psychologist that I wouldn't handle independent life.

I hope this isn't too much to ask but, my Drs appointment is in 4 days. Would it be worth going to this or cancelling? I intended on going to try and get a sick note for ESA. (Took me 6 weeks to get this appointment)

Savvybuyer

Jarr wrote: »

As for the support group - I have no clue about this I've just been told it's there. [1] My work program advisor is very uninterested in any of my explanationsand I often leave verging on tears, not because I'm angry or upset but just simply frustrated with the circles I'm going in. I turn up, show my jobsearch, [2] they are confused why I'm still not getting a job and keep sending me to activities, all of which isn't working. [3] I do everything they ask but I'm tripping over my own issues that I can't change.

I get asked repeatedly if I'm reading their emails and handing my CV out, I think they believe I'm not trying but I'm sure I try harder than 90% of the people there. For the past 3 times I've gone I've been told "loads of my clients have got jobs in the last few weeks why haven't you?" and I have no answer.

[4] A few weeks ago my bus was late and I was 15 minutes late for my appointment. I couldn't help it but I was "told off", sighed at and sanctioned. I let it all happen and gave up fighting with them but signing off JSA isn't an option for me. I posted here now because I feel like I'm giving up on life itself, nothing is getting easier and I don't really even want to be here right now. I'm meeting my work program advisor again tomorrow and I'm fighting so badly with myself just to turn up, I know what's going to happen, I know how worthless I'll feel walking out of there. I'm voluntarily taking myself to a place that traumatizes me every Friday and I don't know how many more times I can do it.

[1] Work program adviser - probably not the best person to be speaking to.

[2] They clearly do not understand how difficult it is for people on the autism spectrum to get a job.

[3] I'm sure you do. The thing with us Asperger's people is that we try our hardest at everything and do things completely and thoroughly.

[4] They really don't appreciate the issues that some people with autism spectrum disorders have to deal with. Sanctioning is a mess and no way to treat people, but they are just following rules that make people's lives more difficult and penalise those that can least afford in my view. They don't realise that, for some people with autism, even travelling by bus in the first place can be a huge challenge. It can be an effort to comply with strict time deadlines, particularly if struggling through rush hour traffic as well, and especially more problematic if you are anxious/stressed/going through a period of depression.

Due to my circumstances - which are completely different to yours - I did not require JSA and, in effect, I'm getting PIP instead of JSA - as I'm receiving PIP, I do not have to do any of the job-search efforts or be subject to any regime including "sanctioning" at all. Indeed in other ways it is beneficial - when I apply for car or home insurance, I am able to avoid stating that I am "unemployed". Under PIP, I am not (at the moment) seeking work and I am not legally obliged to seek work. I am therefore not "unemployed". The very second you write "unemployed" on an insurance application - and you are obliged to tell the truth there or at least people are supposed to (it's fraud if they don't) - tell an insurance company you are "unemployed" - for car insurance or for home insurance in particular but also for other forms of insurance as well - and, immediately, the premiums are racked up as people who are unemployed are considered a greater risk. So, the people that have the least money and are having to look for work, are penalised by the insurance industry because premiums increase for those who are unemployed. If you need car or home insurance in particular, and other insurance possibly, do not ever be unemployed! (I realise that people can be, or become, unemployed through no choice of their own - just making the point that insurers charge higher premiums based on risks that they assess unemployment to bring.)

If I was on JSA or started seeking work, I would become "unemployed" and would have to declare that. I may just end up "falling" into some line of work at some stage without having actually sought it. I'm certainly not work shy - having held a full time job for over 15 years. I do have caring responsibilities at the moment and circumstances may change and I may go back to working. In a way though, I am lucky to have Asperger's as, besides the beneficial aspects it brings - such as ability to have long concentration and focus, attention to detail and an excellent memory in certain areas - it has meant that I am not having to claim JSA and, as a result of being unemployed, have to pay far more on my insurances. (From a money-saving POV, had that not have been the case I would then have considered other options - such as my relative putting the home insurance into their name as they part-own the house or whether additional drivers etc. can be legitimately used.) Asperger's does have its downsides too - and I don't know if you have some problems with organisation of, or even doing, normal everyday life tasks - as they are some of the things that may make you eligible for PIP.

I'm not discouraging JSA if that is the right thing for you to have - and, again, speak to an advisor about that (at charity preferably, failing that Citizen's Advice - however, for me, Citizen's Advice was not enough motivation for me to be able to claim PIP) - but perhaps, with JSA, you are imposing conditions and requirements on yourself that you are then having to fulfil - such as actively seeking work, providing evidence of all your searches and attending interviews on time* that are, maybe, putting extra burdens on you or as a result giving you extra stress/causes for anxiety that could be avoided. On the other hand, without them, maybe you need the motivation to undertake the searching (which you do extremely diligently and well) and could fall into the trap of giving up looking for something that you want if you didn't have something pushing you towards doing so, so maybe it's beneficial having that and that's something to consider as well. Good luck and best of luck in your job search!

*People may scoff at this last one, but they do not realise what having depression sometimes can be like or, sometimes, how autism, in varying degrees, can affect people (although it does not necessarily do so). It's hard for anyone - but, sometimes, it can be a little harder if you have autism. (Which does not provide any excuse for avoiding things or avoiding trying if you're autistic - indeed, a lot of the time, I think having autism causes us to try much harder - we are persistent and keep going with something that interests us, far long after anyone else would have given up and gone home hours before.)

Savvybuyer

Jarr wrote: »

I just realized the answer to this is a resounding yes. If it weren't for my family I would never.. do anything. At my Psychologist appointment my family member with me actually did tell the Psychologist that I wouldn't handle independent life.

I hope this isn't too much to ask but, my Drs appointment is in 4 days. Would it be worth going to this or cancelling? I intended on going to try and get a sick note for ESA. (Took me 6 weeks to get this appointment)

Then that is precisely the point - you do have problems, whether they are organisation or doing normal life tasks - and it is only because your family are here that those problems don't show. Think about it... unfortunately a time may come where your family are no longer around/no longer able to help you - you would then need someone else and that 'someone else' may cost money to provide their services that, currently, your family - as all family members that love each other do - are providing free of charge. Those tasks, whatever your family are doing, would, if they charged a commercial rate, be charged for. That's the extra cost of having a disability. Which is precisely what PIP is there for - to pay for that extra cost.

It does not matter whether someone is currently carrying out those tasks for you for free, because - or, indeed it's precisely the point - they are tasks that you struggle with or unable to do by yourself in carrying on an independent life. (It is called personal independence payment.)

Unfortunately, it's not for me to say whether to go to an appointment or cancel it. (:think:Is your procrastination, and not being able to make a decision on this matter, itself something that you struggle with/need someone else's help to decide? I suspect I can't tell you whether to go or cancel because, apart from it being your decision, I also struggle over questions like this - I suspect you, like me, see all sides - all the pros and cons - to going to appointment and cancelling it and can't reach any objective decision as to which of the arguments in favour or against either option to accept or reject, so therefore don't know! Indeed, how do we ever "know" anything? And what does the word "know" mean? And what degrees of "knowledge" are there? But, stop! I must stop this tangent...)

I think we need to go back to looking at it "in the round" - the "bigger picture" - and stop getting bogged down in the detail. Are you going for ESA or not? Do you need a sick note? Are you actually sick? I think if you are able to speak to someone at an autism charity and decide which benefit(s) you are going for before the doctor's appointment is due (in practice need to do that at least by the day before the appointment - so that, if necessary, it can be cancelled), then that may be able to be sorted like that. Otherwise, maybe just go to the appointment and tell the doctor you are applying for ESA. (Or you may be applying for ESA - whether or not you actually are (I doubt people like doctors are too pedantic over the strict technical situation like that, so don't need to worry if it's not strictly true that an application for the benefit hasn't actually been submitted - you might submit one and therefore you need the sick note.)) Maybe just go, tell them you are applying for ESA (you might be, so that could be true) and need a sick note - presumably regarding anxiety and depression/stress? What's the worst? You go to an appointment 'when you shouldn't', waste the doctor's time for five minutes and they say no, you're not sick. Then no harm done (you haven't currently got a sick note and would end up in the same position as you are now) and then maybe apply for PIP, which doesn't require sickness as such but you've got all the evidence in your diagnosis and report of the things you struggle with (and need to be emphasised in your PIP claim form). Or you go, and the doctor finds that you are ill in which case you were right to have gone to the appointment. Either way, it doesn't end in a bad situation.

I can't help as to whether to go to the doctors or not (I note you've waited 6 weeks) but if you can talk to someone before the appointment date, maybe they can help - or perhaps you can talk to your family and ask their guidance as to what they'd do? (After all, they can see your physical/mental condition - which I can't.) Or I'd be inclined to go to the appointment anyway as it can't do much harm. (It'd also keep you 'in the loop' (with the doctor) for if/when the DWP (or their agents) contact your doctor for information about your condition/the way it affects you as a result of your PIP claim. Though I'm sure you know that Asperger's itself isn't an "illness" as such - people with it are not mentally ill - but it can coexist with various sicknesses/ailments. As regards Asperger's, unfortunately sometimes GPs aren't as well aware of it as they should be, although they should know if you are suffering depression and the effects that that has, or is having, on your abilities to carry out living tasks - and may be relevant to an ESA, or indeed a PIP, claim.)

If you want help as to what to say to the GP, maybe write down things that you might say - take a crib sheet or something to help prompt you. Basically, you're applying for ESA, you have anxiety/stress/depression (if that's so) and need sick note evidence. (Do you need sick evidence for ESA or is this something the DWP will request from the doctor if necessary?:think: I.e. after you've claimed the ESA on their form.) I assume the doctor is aware of your Asperger's diagnosis: if not, then tell them that too.

Best of luck.

Savvybuyer

I don't think I'd get ESA as, thanks to my money-saving efforts (as well as, I suppose, sheer luck elsewhere), I've got too much money stashed away:rotfl:.

I shudder to think how much PIP I should have been getting even at the time when I was in full time work. Anyway, I am getting now something that, if truth be told, I should probably have been getting for several years.

But I'm just looking at gov.uk (I seem to be developing a special interest in benefits:rotfl:) and I note that ESA offers you "financial support if you're unable to work" (my emphasis). https://www.gov.uk/employment-support-allowance/overview

It therefore does not seem to me to be the right benefit if you are getting JSA, as you are not unable to work.

(However, what do I know? Hence my suggestion to talk to a proper adviser on benefits. As I know nothing, and cannot give advice.)

However, I also note that it says ESA offers:

"personalised help so that you can work if you’re able to."

That may be whether your doctor considers that you are able to, depends whether you are ill or not and to what extent your illness affects your ability (or otherwise) to work. So, in that sense, it might be useful to go to doctor if you have clinical depression or mental illness issues as issues like that clearly can affect someone's ability to work and might well be the reason someone would be on ESA.

Or, otherwise, if you are able to work, you might be entitled to JSA, ESA and PIP. No harm in claiming everything you are entitled to. Or, perhaps, but again this is based on that brief information on the linked webpage and people generally (i.e. non-Asperger's) that write such information tend not to be fully accurate or correct, but assuming the information to be literally correct and taking it as read, perhaps ESA would provide "personalised help so that you can work if you’re able to" which would then support your JSA in helping you to seek work until the point at which you get work and then are off JSA. :think:Perhaps that's not "literally" correct after all? Perhaps it is a more intuitive interpretation - and therefore it actually means (literally) that ESA gives you personalised help if you are in work, rather than help to seek it which would then support the JSA process.