ESA and Aspergers

Jarr_2

Hi

I recently was diagnosed with Aspergers and it's honestly a relief. It answers a lot but I won't go into that.

I've been on JSA for a short while and I'm having major issues with the work program not understanding my anxiety and social issues. I've been working on it a lot with a nurse since I was diagnosed but I am reluctantly accepting I may need to be on ESA for a while. I want to be in a support group if they will allow it.

How can I go about organising this? I called up the Jobcentre and they made me feel terrified, they were not at all understanding or polite. All I know is I need to sign off JSA and then sign up for ESA but during the 14 days I won't receive any money?

I only have my diganosis right now. I don't have any sick note and I'm scared to ask my doctor for one (also takes 6 weeks for an appointment at my surgery), I'm not sure what to say to them. I'm not really sick I just need some help and I need work program to understand and stop making me verge into a worthless depressive state. I know I am a huge failure right now but I want to change it and I just need help.

Thank you

rogerblack

Jarr wrote: »

Hi

I recently was diagnosed with Aspergers and it's honestly a relief. It answers a lot but I won't go into that.

Just because you have a diagnosis of Aspergers does not mean you are entitled to any benefit.
Firstly, have you asked to speak to someone at the jobcentre about your disability - they should be able to make adjustments if you have issues with specific parts of the requirements made on you.

The support group is perhaps unlikely for anyone with Aspergers - apart from the most serious.
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors

The most common reason may be '13. Coping with social engagement due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.
Engagement in social contact is always precluded due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual'

Note that 'always' here does not mean always - but something like 'a large majority of the time'.
And 'social contact' may mean normal interactions with people in shops, ... it may not mean going out to socialise.

But - you either need to match one of the above descriptors, or be found that finding you fit for work-related activity would put you or others seriously at risk.

You need to supply a fit-note before you would be paid.

tomtontom

Your first step is to approach your GP, you need a fit note to support your claim. You don't get to choose which group you are allocated, you will be assessed and then put in one of the two groups.

It would be helpful if your nurse could speak with your JCP/ WP advisor - they may be able to make adjustments to support you towards work.

TELLIT01

I suspect the OP is confused about the two groups. The Support Group isn't there to support people in getting back to work, it is there to support those who are least able to consider working - about 10%-15% of claimants.
The WRAG - Work Related Activity Group is the one which is there to help people get back into work.
It is highly unlikely that somebody with Asperger's would be put into the Support Group.

Jarr_2

TELLIT01 wrote: »

I suspect the OP is confused about the two groups. The Support Group isn't there to support people in getting back to work, it is there to support those who are least able to consider working - about 10%-15% of claimants.
The WRAG - Work Related Activity Group is the one which is there to help people get back into work.
It is highly unlikely that somebody with Asperger's would be put into the Support Group.

Thanks, yes maybe I am. Honestly I don't know what exactly to ask.

All I was told was by my psychologist that I should discuss ESA because I'm not doing well with the jobseekers stuff and work program don't understand why. I've tried to explain and they tell me to either try harder or apply for ESA. He also said Asperger's is considered a disability and support is available for getting into work I just can't seem to find it.

jackyann

I would initially approach the nurse who is working with you. He or she will know quite a lot about the system and how it works.
They may be able to arrange the correct certificates for you.
They will also be able to support you in getting an appointment with your GP if that is necessary.
Good luck

Jarr_2

jackyann wrote: »

I would initially approach the nurse who is working with you. He or she will know quite a lot about the system and how it works.
They may be able to arrange the correct certificates for you.
They will also be able to support you in getting an appointment with your GP if that is necessary.
Good luck

She told me to get in touch with the jobcentre and end my JSA claim and begin ESA. She mentioned the GP stuff but I don't really like talking about it, all of this feels incredibly pathetic. I don't know how I can approach my GP without coming across as ridiculous. I have an appointment but I don't know what to say to them.

NYM

Jarr wrote: »

She told me to get in touch with the jobcentre and end my JSA claim and begin ESA. She mentioned the GP stuff but I don't really like talking about it, all of this feels incredibly pathetic. I don't know how I can approach my GP without coming across as ridiculous. I have an appointment but I don't know what to say to them.

Perhaps you could write down how you feel and give it to your GP ?
You'd be surprised how often people do that.

Savvybuyer

Jarr wrote: »

Hi

I recently was diagnosed with Aspergers and it's honestly a relief. It answers a lot but I won't go into that.

I've been on JSA for a short while and [1] I'm having major issues with the work program not understanding my anxiety and social issues. I've been working on it a lot with a nurse since I was diagnosed but I am reluctantly accepting I may need to be on ESA for a while. I want to be in a support group if they will allow it.

How can I go about organising this? [1] I called up the Jobcentre and they made me feel terrified, they were not at all understanding or polite. All I know is I need to sign off JSA and then sign up for ESA but during the 14 days I won't receive any money?

I only have my diganosis right now. I don't have any sick note and I'm scared to ask my doctor for one (also takes 6 weeks for an appointment at my surgery), [2] I'm not sure what to say to them. I'm not really sick I just need some help and I need work program to understand and [3] stop making me verge into a worthless depressive state. I know I am a huge failure right now but I want to change it and I just need help.

Thank you

Hi there. Sorry to everyone for quoting the whole post, and then picking on bits of it to answer but I think it's the most useful way to answer it and I'm sure everyone else will understand when they hear my next sentence.

I have Asperger's too. In response to parts of your post that I have numbered: [1] That's the whole problem. In fact it could be argued that that itself is disability discrimination as the whole point is that it is a communications disorder and therefore you struggle to make yourself understood and not misunderstood (often because 'normal' people tend to make assumptions that are simply not correct*). (*And if I offend anyone by saying this, then it is Asperger's truth, so deal with it!:D (1) The greater the truth, the more offence and (2) Notice that I said "tend to", I didn't say that you, or any particular person, did. It is an important distinction - and I am a man of fine distinctions, no doubt due to my Asperger's.) Hopefully, as more and more people come to understand what Asperger's is, we will reach a point where people stop assuming that telephone interviews or face-to-face interviews are necessarily the best method of communication. It affects us differently - personally I am quite good on the telephone, but not very good face-to-face and, really, for me, written communication (yes, other readers believe it or not) is my most accomplished area - while I may waffle on and on, I deal with each point thoroughly and completely and give a proper answer. For you, telephone may, as it sometimes is for me, be a problem: some, or maybe many, people do not seem to realise that sometimes we may take a little longer to process information they give before we can respond.

However, even if it could be argued to be disability discrimination, I feel it's not best to go down this route as it is not the main, salient, relevant point and pursuing it will I feel achieve nothing.

Instead:
I would probably go down the route of personal independence payment (PIP) claim rather than ESA. And I would go down the PIP route in a specific way, namely with the help of someone else (more details later).

I originally went to Citizen's Advice Bureau and was given some information on various benefits and I didn't think that PIP applied to me. It seemed too long and complicated to claim and, with my procrastination issues and putting off what was not part of my 'special interests', I didn't claim it.

However, having some issues with some 'normal life' tasks in order to live independently, I approached a local Asperger's charity for help. In my particular part of the country, they first did a benefits screening and told me that I should be claiming PIP. I didn't expect this, as, from the info. from the Citizen's Advice, I didn't think I qualified - however the 'advocate' pointed out to me that two parts of the PIP qualifiers specifically relate to communication. You only need to score 8 points (I think) - obviously there's different levels above that - but one of the questions on communication obviously scores maximum 4 points and I think almost everyone with Asperger's would have the same issues so should immediately hit the 4 points. The other aspect on communication is also 4 points - so 4 + 4 = 8 and immediate qualify for PIP. You may have other issues, like me, such as certain daily living tasks.

You don't get PIP because you have Asperger's, or because of any particular other disability. Instead, it is the effect that a particular disability has in the circumstances of an individual's case that may mean they qualify. I was surprised I did: but, in truth, I should probably have been getting it (or an equivalent) for the past 20 years, including when I was in full time work for 15 years - it does not depend on whether you are working or not. Indeed, we have had Asperger's "from birth", completely regardless of whether it was diagnosed or not.

You will, however, for the DWP, need to have an official diagnosis - which you have got, and need to provide a copy of that with the claim forms. You will need to start the claim by, ah um, telephone. I think you should do what I did although this will depend on what sort of services are available in your locality. Is there an Asperger's/autism charity group that you could contact for advice and, as necessary, help with your claim - also with help as to what may happen in any period of signing off JSA and before you receive any new benefit? Otherwise, perhaps you can contact the National Autistic Society helpline. http://www.autism.org.uk/news-and-events/about-the-nas/contact-us.aspx Again, this may be telephone but the person on the other end will understand your condition far more than many people I feel and may be able to point you to the right source of help.

[2] This, again, is the very problem. We never know what to say, and for us it's not intuitive. I think the other points of help may be useful, if you are not clinically depressed or sick in another way. Besides, we only get about 5 minutes if very lucky with a doctor and explaining succinctly what we want in that period of time...? If you do have depression though, you should definitely see your GP and ask for a referral - and also seek counselling - http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/local-minds/. Or you may contact the Samaritans. Even if you are not suicidal, they may provide someone to talk to if you are depressed.

[3] You are not a huge failure right now. You are coping with anxiety (like I was) and are a person who has achieved a great deal, including coming onto here to ask for help. It's time for chin up and to seek that help! Instead, all it indicates is a temporary lack of self-esteem and it's that that you can resolve - you are worthwhile and do have the ability - with places of support.

Now: the reason I suggested PIP rather than ESA although, unfortunately, it may depend on which part of the country you live in. You may not know this but I think (and I may wrong) the DWP have contracted PIP assessments out to one of two separate organisations. One of them covers some areas of the country; another the other areas. One is good and another is total rubbish! (IMO.) I am fortunate that I live in the one where the assessment centres are by the good company - but I'm surprised because there was this case the other day where people with far more severely debilitating states - obvious lack of mobility etc. - have been waiting for more than a year for PIP, and yet I got PIP within months, far sooner than I expected and wasn't even required to attend an assessment centre. For me, a copy of my diagnosis and my descriptions of the affect of the disability on me were enough - and, as Asperger's is life-long, permanent, they set the maximum possible period before reviewing me. I think it is wrong that others have been waiting so long and with such obvious disabilities and yet I got my claim approved so quickly when they are in more need than me. Whether or not that is so, it was down to the help of the advisers at the local charity who sat with me and completed the claim form.

I also think that PIP might be more useful for people with Asperger's than ESA and the support group. I say that because one of my relatives, who also has Asperger's, as well as other issues, is currently receiving DLA and ESA with the support group - but I am not sure whether being part of the support group is helping them or making them even worse. In their case, they have anxiety which is increased before each support group, because they become anxious about having to attend a group session from which, inevitably, they never make friends, do not speak much to anyone around them, no-one understands them etc. etc. I do not know whether, in our case, attendance at sessions taking part in groups is a good thing: it is a world set up for the vast majority of people, neurotypicals (for want of a better word), and, for these people (i.e. 99.9% of people, namely people that don't have Asperger's/autism - that's not a literally correct figure by the way), attending and taking part in group sessions is comforting and part of their raison d'etre - as these people's whole existence is based on social conversation - whereas, for us, it is our special interests that play the functional role in our lives, not social conversation and group communication that, for some of us, makes us anxious (for various reasons on various occasions).

My relative has to attend the support group as part of the benefit - all I can think of to say to comfort them (when they get anxious in advance of nearly every session, thus prolonging their anxiety and depression and revisiting it) is that the group session is there simply to tick a box and simply to go through the motions in order to comply with the rules that the society has decided, which are completely pointless and serve no other purpose at all and that they should not expect the groups to provide any usefulness or to make friends. They do not exist for that reason - they exist, for my relative, solely as something to attend that, were they NT, might have been useful for them but, as they are not, seems to cause them more anxiety and worry than enough.

They should therefore simply go the groups, talk to people if they talk to them, and after the required time, come back home - job done and box ticked. If they talk to them, they talk to them and if they don't, they don't. Simple as that - if they do not or cannot think of what to talk about or if others (because they pick up no body language signals and the radio transmitter and receiver of such signals does not exist in my relative) cannot therefore, through no fault of their own, detect that my relative wants to say something but can't think of what to say, and therefore, through no fault of their own, they ignore my relative; if therefore that's where a problem in social conversation exists, and it's like trying to get in edgeways to a conversation between 'everyone else', unable to do so whilst they are speaking by use of words because I might be interrupting, inevitably, at the 'wrong' moment - they may be "speaking" by body language but that does not "speak" to me - so that's why I said "speaking by use of words", I have to wait for them to stop talking (in their words) and inevitably when such moments come, during which they have been inadvertently ignoring my presence (due to no fault of their own but from not getting any body language signals from me), when they've stopped talking (I mean by use of words), they've either moved onto something else or anything I say at that point is now in respect of a matter they've already moved on from and therefore I'm now talking (in words!) at the 'wrong' point and they're bored with what I'm saying as they have moved on (and I don't see their boredom in any event).

That's what it's like - that's why it happens and, to return to the point, it's why group sessions are sometimes not the best for a person with Asperger's (i.e that are not one-to-one - one-to-one works very well, with me, as there are no other people that then start having conversations all between themselves, connected by body language) - so, maybe, conventional 'support groups' - and I may be totally wrong and have no idea at all about this by the way as I have no idea what my relative attends or doesn't as part of their benefits - so I may be completely wrong and others know more what they entail - but, anyway, it may be, for this reason (group sessions not best set up for people with Asperger's - it depends, some can cope fairly well with groups even if I never come away making any social friends) maybe it's better to go down PIP claim than for ESA and support groups. I don't know - this may be one thing to discuss with your adviser, once you find them via the various support mechanisms I've suggested.

If you're anything like me, I think you will find it easier to talk, one-to-one, with someone in a room, at an autism charity, that knows about and is prepared to give you time to answer - and, like they were with me, will tolerate all manner of waffling on! (It's not - it's simply dealing with every issue completely - which may not be in an order that non-autistic people find best - and most people, who don't have autism, possibly simply don't have the staying power needed to get through and maintain concentration of such a long-winded monologue.)

(Finally, as regards such a long post, I make no apologies - I have simply written what I thought, without editing, and if it is too long for people, then the answer is to skip it...it causes you no harm! However, for those who have got through it, including you as doubtlessly interested and worthy of reading, hopefully I've been able to give an idea of what Asperger's is like as well as how to seek help on benefits and given you some useful information.) At this point, having gone on and on and you've forgotten my main points, I'll now refer you back to the parts of my reply around the links I've given. Namely, probably best to see if there is a local Asperger's or autism group in your area (the internet is a great source on that - try a search for your county name + Asperger's maybe) and approach them to see if they can assist you with benefit claims or else point in the right direction, and also the counselling services available if you have depression (may be a waiting list) and see your GP too if that is the case. There: beginning, middle, end, conclusion.

Good luck!:)

Savvybuyer

Jarr wrote: »

She told me to get in touch with the jobcentre and end my JSA claim and begin ESA. She mentioned the GP stuff but I don't really like talking about it, all of this feels incredibly pathetic. I don't know how I can approach my GP without coming across as ridiculous. I have an appointment but I don't know what to say to them.

I know exactly how you feel. (Well, I don't actually but I've had similar situations so can relate to this:rotfl:.)

That's the problem - we "always" come across in a way that we don't intend, or we leave the wrong impression. (I hope you get my pedanticness - I've put the word "always" in quotes as it's not actually totally true.)

I'd be inclined to cancel the appointment with the GP if it's about asking for help in dealing with the benefits service, and to go instead to any of the autism charities that may be able to assist. I'll keep your appointment with the GP if you are unwell or if you have depression (and by which I don't mean just the odd sadness here and there, I mean depression in the illness sense and you should know if you have that). It may be useful to see your GP if you have anxiety as they may be able to provide some prescription for that.

I started off with anxiety. We do tend to over-think things and think of all sorts of possibilities that never occur to the 'ordinary' person, plus it can be stressful trying to fit in to a society or to actively think and make sure you are doing the right thing all the time - such as stopping before you unwittingly enter their 'personal space' (which extends some invisible distance around them - they give clues that we cannot see!) or if, like me, sometimes you float through the air and continue without stopping...

Anyway, I started with anxiety. It progressed, over a decade or more, to depression. I ended up with counselling sessions (far more of them than anyone normally has) and eventually, by chance, a referral to a referral that led to my Asperger's diagnosis (I 'knew' I had Asperger's about 25 years before that, for all of about a week then forgot about it - typical for me to be streets ahead of everyone and to "know" that I had Asperger's, in the 1980s, at the age of 12, about 10 years before they ever diagnosed it) and after my 'official' diagnosis I've got better and better ever since (though I still have underlying depression - I don't think you ever recover from that). As for my Asperger's, I like it. It has its downsides - procrastination over some normal life activities, that sometimes take a back seat but eventually get done - but it has its positives too.

As for the part of your post I've highlighted, I totally relate to this! One thing - and it is a positive for you - you are not alone in these areas.

rogerblack

Savvybuyer wrote: »

I also think that PIP might be more useful for people with Asperger's than ESA and the support group. I say that because one of my relatives, who also has Asperger's, as well as other issues, is currently receiving DLA and ESA with the support group - but I am not sure whether being part of the support group is helping them or making them even worse. In their case, they have anxiety which is increased before each support group, because they become anxious about having to attend a group session from which,

The support group does not mandate any support at all, any offered is purely voluntary.
If he is being required to attend, it is likely some work program provider has gotten the wrong end of the stick, and is doing things beyond the law.

In practice, few people in the support group are offered any support at all.