ESA and Aspergers

Savvybuyer

rogerblack wrote: »

Just because you have a diagnosis of Aspergers does not mean you are entitled to any benefit.
Firstly, have you asked to speak to someone at the jobcentre about your disability - they should be able to make adjustments if you have issues with specific parts of the requirements made on you.

The support group is perhaps unlikely for anyone with Aspergers - apart from the most serious.
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors

The most common reason may be '13. Coping with social engagement due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.
Engagement in social contact is always precluded due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual'

Note that 'always' here does not mean always - but something like 'a large majority of the time'.
And 'social contact' may mean normal interactions with people in shops, ... it may not mean going out to socialise.

But - you either need to match one of the above descriptors, or be found that finding you fit for work-related activity would put you or others seriously at risk.

You need to supply a fit-note before you would be paid.

Sorry to post again. Your post is a very useful reply, particularly about the support groups. Maybe they are what I thought.

As regards the part I've highlighted, you are right.

But the whole point is that we may find it difficult to speak to people, or not know what to say, or may not know what reasonable adjustments we may need or may lack the ability to ask for them even if we knew what they were. It's possibly a 'catch 22' disability in this sense.

However, we can (or some of us can) do it if we sit down and think about what we require and think about what to say - I find I'm writing everything down before a telephone conversation of this type lest I forget to say something. But then I ramble on and make irrelevant points.

These sorts of things may be something that can be brought up via an autism charity adviser and, about the support group, is possibly one reason why it may be better to go down for PIP rather than ESA.

The problem with Asperger's is that engagement with social contact is not always precluded - we do approach others and engage in social contact even if sometimes awkwardly. But then I speak of myself, and it affects people differently - in fact I can approach people very well and not awkwardly most times e.g. "conversations" that we have with shop assistants that generally say "thank you" when we pay for and then take the goods and leave!

So it would seem to me that condition 13 is not satisfied. Then again, I'm probably reading it too literally, which may not be the case of a non-autistic DWP employee who does not pay attention to detail and the use of the word "always" in that sentence:rotfl:. Sometimes, I've noticed people do not always strictly comply with rules. They probably do though on cases like these (benefit assessments).

EDIT: Ah, I've now noticed that "always" does not mean "always". Typical neurotypical people - never saying what they mean!
A "large" majority of the time... well, here is where I get into hair-splitting, appeals and arguments over meanings of words. I think the benefits adviser approach, at a charity, is the best route though.

Savvybuyer

rogerblack wrote: »

The support group does not mandate any support at all, any offered is purely voluntary.
If he is being required to attend, it is likely some work program provider has gotten the wrong end of the stick, and is doing things beyond the law.

In practice, few people in the support group are offered any support at all.

Thank you.
It's probably me that has the 'wrong end of the stick' and it's not a support group that they are attending but something else instead - I'll look into it with them.

My cynicism never expected that something called a "support" group would, in this society, offer "support" at all. But anyway...

Savvybuyer

TELLIT01 wrote: »

I suspect the OP is confused about the two groups. The Support Group isn't there to support people in getting back to work, it is there to support those who are least able to consider working - about 10%-15% of claimants.
The WRAG - Work Related Activity Group is the one which is there to help people get back into work.
It is highly unlikely that somebody with Asperger's would be put into the Support Group.

Someone with Asperger's may be put into the support group if the DWP were not made aware that the person had Asperger's or, even, if the Asperger's person themselves didn't know as they may be undiagnosed - Asperger's can be very subtle and, like myself, I wasn't diagnosed (except very briefly by myself 28 years ago and then wrongly ruled out!) for nearly four decades of life.

I think that this may have happened with my relative - in their case, it does stand to reason as I think they are someone who is very unlikely to be able to go back to work anytime soon. In their case, we didn't find out they had Asperger's until a few months ago when, prompted by the local autism charity, we went to ask for a diagnosis for my relative, as we suspected they were also on the spectrum, only to be told, to our complete surprise, that they already had a diagnosis. Turned out someone had written something in their medical notes several years ago! I'll look into what group they are in as it may not be right. I suspect the DWP was not informed about a diagnosis as I am under the impression that no-one else in the family knew either, although I had no dealings with the original ESA claim and what groups they may or may not have been put into.

Savvybuyer

Jarr wrote: »

Thanks, yes maybe I am. Honestly I don't know what exactly to ask.

All I was told was by my psychologist that I should discuss ESA because I'm not doing well with the jobseekers stuff and work program don't understand why. I've tried to explain and they tell me to either try harder or apply for ESA. He also said Asperger's is considered a disability and support is available for getting into work I just can't seem to find it.

I don't think it is easy if you have Asperger's (that's not to say it is "easy" for people who don't have Asperger's either, but...) The interview process itself is a barrier (although, equally, that is not an excuse for poor preparation for interviews on our part). I think figures were that only 16% of people with autism had a job - the lowest figure of any disability group. (Source: National Autistic Society.) I reckon it's the interview (I'm undoubtedly correct again). How can people who make recruitment decisions put out of their mind initial sub-conscious impressions formed about people when they are not even aware that they have got those impressions of the jobseekers in the first place? People generally make all sorts of assumptions and are not aware that they are doing so. However, it's far from impossible to get a job: I managed to get a full-time job and kept it for over 15 years. I left, in fact on a high point, at a time when it was 'time to move on' and came out fairly well from it. Perhaps I should not assume that people are affected in the same way as me though. If work is the option for you, then do keep looking (as indeed you have to if on JSA) and keep trying your best: it was how I managed, somehow(!), to find a job - that I then made a great success of.

I wasn't even aware that I wasn't making eye contact. I think I went through a series of failed interviews beforehand, gradually becoming better after each one. I went through it the hard way - failing, then improving one thing, then failing because I'd forgotten something else, then trying to rectify that next time, then... etc., eventually I shined out as the best candidate and got the job. I think it was my specialist knowledge that added the icing onto the cake for them. That could be something to consider - whether there is a career based on something you are interested in.

That's if your condition is Asperger's and not Pervasive Development Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified (PDD-NOS) (which could sometimes be diagnosed in cases of autism spectrum disorders which lack defining special interests) - that's what I reckon my "Asperger's" relative really has, the clinician wrote "Asperger's" but I can't see a special interest so my reckoning is it is actually PDD-NOS. For myself, they told me face to face I had Asperger's but actually wrote "autism spectrum disorder" - say one thing, write another:rotfl: - so, officially, it's autism spectrum disorder for me but I call it Asperger's. (However, these are little devious points added in just to cause confusion and complicate matters so ignore me on them.)

As regards getting a job, it's like so much else in my life - I'd long felt I've had to go through the hard way and push myself so much more than everyone else only to achieve the same result - and perhaps it turns out I was right: that may be the effect of the disability (although I do not know, as I do not know how easy, or hard, things would be without it).

Savvybuyer

I know I've now replied to everything - that was a bit obsessive wasn't it? - but, I think, as regards the OP's original question, I go back to post number 9 and my suggestion to contact a benefits adviser at an autism/Asperger's charity. (:eek:I don't want it to be thought that I am drowning out other people's suggestions.) It may be that instead of ESA, it should be PIP (but I don't know - and you may already have claimed and be receiving PIP for all I know?). HTH.

fishybusiness

Get hold of a copy of your Aspie assessment - you will have to go back to the mental health team that assessed you.

If you apply for ESA, and I think you should, part of your evidence is the assessment and you will be able to send a copy with your application.

Any application you make should describe how you find life difficult. For example, if timekeeping is difficult explain it, could be that you lose track of time and forget to go to appointments on time, or couldn't get to work on time. Other things like safety - some aspie's struggle with spacial awareness, and bump in to things a lot, you would explain that on the application.

My partner was diagnosed last year and we have been through this 'lark' for the last 4 years or so on and off, she is now in the ESA support group.

Perhaps ESA/ PIP will give you some breathing space to work out what jobs you might be able to do rather than being pushed in to a corner by JSA.

Are you sure you have an Asperger's diagnosis - the guidance manual for diagnosis - DSM 5, removed Aspergers, and extended the Autism spectrum, and Aspergers is now an Autistic Spectrum Disorder.

TELLIT01

Jarr wrote: »

She told me to get in touch with the jobcentre and end my JSA claim and begin ESA. She mentioned the GP stuff but I don't really like talking about it, all of this feels incredibly pathetic. I don't know how I can approach my GP without coming across as ridiculous. I have an appointment but I don't know what to say to them.

You need to tell your GP the same as you have told us here regarding what the JobCentre and the nurse have said. I don't think your GP will think you are being ridiculous.
A system which can't adapt to individual medical issues, but still having a desire to work, is the only ridiculous thing here.

emmeey

I am in the middle of claiming ESA with Aspergers as well as CFS etc I sent in all my psychologist assessment etc! I to am hoping to go in the support! group

Jarr_2

Savvy-- Thank you. I feel like you really genuinely get it. I'm going to read and re-read all of your posts because it's really helpful. Thank you so much. You didn't write too much, you wrote exactly what I (and others maybe) need. I do know of PIP but I was certain it wasn't for me, maybe I misread it? I thought it was to do with having a carer, I don't need help in everyday life (family are helpful) but I need help getting into work.

emmeey wrote: »

I am in the middle of claiming ESA with Aspergers as well as CFS etc I sent in all my psychologist assessment etc! I to am hoping to go in the support! group

Did you get a doctor's note? If so what did you say to your GP?

I do have my Asperger's diagnosis with the full (very very long) report from my Psychologist.

As for the support group - I have no clue about this I've just been told it's there. My work program advisor is very uninterested in any of my explanations and I often leave verging on tears, not because I'm angry or upset but just simply frustrated with the circles I'm going in. I turn up, show my jobsearch, they are confused why I'm still not getting a job and keep sending me to activities, all of which isn't working. I do everything they ask but I'm tripping over my own issues that I can't change.

I get asked repeatedly if I'm reading their emails and handing my CV out, I think they believe I'm not trying but I'm sure I try harder than 90% of the people there. For the past 3 times I've gone I've been told "loads of my clients have got jobs in the last few weeks why haven't you?" and I have no answer.

A few weeks ago my bus was late and I was 15 minutes late for my appointment. I couldn't help it but I was "told off", sighed at and sanctioned. I let it all happen and gave up fighting with them but signing off JSA isn't an option for me. I posted here now because I feel like I'm giving up on life itself, nothing is getting easier and I don't really even want to be here right now. I'm meeting my work program advisor again tomorrow and I'm fighting so badly with myself just to turn up, I know what's going to happen, I know how worthless I'll feel walking out of there. I'm voluntarily taking myself to a place that traumatizes me every Friday and I don't know how many more times I can do it.

nannytone_2

emmeey wrote: »

I am in the middle of claiming ESA with Aspergers as well as CFS etc I sent in all my psychologist assessment etc! I to am hoping to go in the support! group

in all truth, getting into the support group is based very slimly on how disabled/ill a person is.
it is purely a cox ticking exercise.
if you meet one of the descriptors, then you're in.
fail to meet one of the descriptors and you've no chance.
i have mild aspergers, and am in the support group, but that is because i am blimnd. i didn't even bother putting the aspergers down for either ESA or DLA.
but as i said ... my aspergers is mild. i don't see that i have major issues apart from the liking for rigid routine and not liking to speak to people i don't know.
friends tell me I'm 'odd', but in an endearing way .
oh well .... thats ok then