Green, ethical, energy issues in the news

edited 12 July 2021 at 11:38AM in Green & Ethical MoneySaving
6.8K replies 443.8K views
1639640642644645685

Replies

  • edited 20 January at 6:20PM
    Swan_ValleySwan_Valley Forumite
    51 Posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 20 January at 6:20PM
    One of the "consortiums" to succeed in the Scottish offshore auctions:
    Does anyone know where to find a complete list of the successful bidders?
    South Wales. SolarEdge 4kWp West + 6kWp East plus 2xGivEnergy 8.2kWh Batteries. 2xA2A ASHP's + MVHR.                                     Kia e-Soul 1st Edition & Renault Zoe Iconic BEV's. Go Faster & Ripple WT1 + Abundance.
  • CoastalwatchCoastalwatch Forumite
    2.3K Posts
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭
    One of the "consortiums" to succeed in the Scottish offshore auctions:
    Does anyone know where to find a complete list of the successful bidders?
    That's great news SV. I'm a massive fan of Energy4All, I believe they were one of the early pioneers of community based renewable energy projects, both Wind and Solar. I invested with them on behalf of our Grandchildren as this option is available when investing with them so doubling up our desire to invest Ethically and Sustainably for the generation/s to follow. They have demonstrated tremendous passion in the successful delivery of projects to date and I look forward to them expanding further still with the news you posted here. Thank you.

    East coast, lat 51.97. 8.26kw SSE, 23° pitch + 0.59kw WSW vertical. Nissan Leaf plus Zappi charger and 2 x ASHP's. Three Givenergy 8.2 kWh batts & 3.0 kW ac inverter. Still waiting for V2H. CoCharger Host, Interest in Ripple Energy & Abundance.
  • QrizBQrizB Forumite
    6.6K Posts
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭
    We've mentioned once or twice (at least!) that the CfD model that funds recent green energy projects is currently resulting in a "negative levy" whereby the generators are paying Ofgem, rather than vice-versa. There's a story in The Guardian today that puts a figure on  it of £27 per household:

    Britain’s wind and solar farms could help to reduce households’ energy bills by paying back almost £800m to consumers by the end of the winter after gas and electricity market prices rocketed above their set subsidy levels.

    Households earned a £157m windfall from renewable energy generators for the first time in the final quarter of last year following record high market prices, according to official figures.

    The body responsible for managing renewable energy payments, the Low Carbon Contracts Company (LCCC), has forecast paybacks from the industry could increase to a total of £770m by the end of winter, shaving an average of £27 from the annual home energy bill.

    The next paragraph ties in with an article I was reading earlier today but now can't find:
    But customers might have been in line for multibillion pound paybacks worth about £140 for a typical annual energy bill if the UK’s renewable energy rollout had taken place sooner, according to the industry.
    The article looked at the planned build-out of wind in the mid-2010s and how that might have turned out if the government of the day hadn't had a change of heart about "all that green crap". If I find it again I'll share it here.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus elec & gas / Voda BB / Virgin mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 2.5kw inverter. 26MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem caps explained - October 2021 and April 2022
  • QrizBQrizB Forumite
    6.6K Posts
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭
    ... and of course, as soon as I post I find the article.

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-cutting-the-green-crap-has-added-2-5bn-to-uk-energy-bills (other sources exist including the Independent and New Statesman but they seem to be sourcing their info from Carbon Brief).

    Energy bills in the UK are nearly £2.5bn higher than they would have been if climate policies had not been scrapped over the past decade, Carbon Brief analysis shows.

    The changes included gutting energy-efficiency subsidies, effectively banning onshore wind in England and scrapping the zero-carbon homes standard. They were introduced after a November 2013 Sun frontpage reported that then-prime minister David Cameron’s answer to rising energy bills was to “get rid of the green crap”, meaning to cut climate policies.

    Chancellor George Osborne is expected to unveil measures next month. Options include a delay rolling out the £48 “energy companies obligation” which helps the vulnerable meet insulation costs, or taking the axe to £50 carbon taxes and wind farm levies.

    But Lib Dem president Tim Farron said: “The ‘green crap’, as the Tories call it, are the funds that pay for insulating the homes of elderly people and which support thousands of British manufacturing jobs.

    “This is depressingly cynical — only bothering about political spin, not in protecting our children’s future.”

    The PM’s new stance will further dismay Tory modernisers, who fear the party is shifting too far to the Right in the run-up to the next Election



    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus elec & gas / Voda BB / Virgin mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 2.5kw inverter. 26MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem caps explained - October 2021 and April 2022
  • edited 21 January at 12:00PM
    Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
    13K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited 21 January at 12:00PM
    I'm still bitter about the 2015 RE bloodbath when the Tories won a majority and went to town. Cutting building standard targets, slashing FiT's, removing onshore wind and PV from the CfD's, changing planning rules to make wind harder to roll out, and fracking easier. What a mist6ake. At least they kept supporting offshore wind (run by very large companies!) and also confirmed the HPC contract when it was clearly too high (not so obvious in 2012 when first set).

    I wonder where wholesale leccy prices will go? We've had a massive gas price spike before, but coal and gas tended to fluctuate and demand simply shifted in response. When the NAO massively reduced future price predictions in 2016, (cutting prices across their 2015-2035 estimates by approx £25/MWh v's their 2012 estimate) they put this down to falling RE costs and lower than expected increases in demand for FF gas. If that still holds true (outside of short term spikes and political goings on in Russia / Ukraine) then will prices drop back down in line with NAO predictions?

    But regardless, if CfD's are issued in the £40-£50/MWh range, then they'll either payback in via high wholesale prices, or hopefully operate close to net subsidy zero at the lower NAO estimates. But I wonder how much intraday storage we'll need to stop prices fluctuating too much between high and low RE generation fluctuations. Would certainly boost the idea of the Morocco HVDC and regular/reliable tidal solutions.

    Here's a link to the NAO figures, I found it within a HPC document, but if anyone can find a simpler source where the graph on page 39 (2016 monies) can be copied and pasted, that would be greatly appreciated.


    Note - Obviously if developers think they can earn more than the CfD prices on their leccy, then they could choose to build without any subsidy support, but having a CfD contract guarantees them a level of income regardless of fluctuations in prices, and potential overcapcity in the future as more RE rolls out. Also a CfD contract allows developers to finance their scheme at a lower (safer) level of interest, and from more potential investors.

    Just my thoughts, so don't take them too seriously, but in today's money, it does look like new wind and PV can operate profitably at around £50/MWh, but perhaps inflation will impact this, but that does look like a good match with those NAO estimates, and then as RE gets cheaper, perhaps just in real terms, then that will hopefully balance out rising storage cost impacts.

    Always the optimist.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • QrizBQrizB Forumite
    6.6K Posts
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭
    Here's a link to the NAO figures, I found it within a HPC document, but if anyone can find a simpler source where the graph on page 39 (2016 monies) can be copied and pasted, that would be greatly appreciated.
    Try this page:
    Each annual forecast has an "Annexe M" with historical and forecast energy prices. It's an Excel table.
    If I get time I'll extract several sets and graph them.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus elec & gas / Voda BB / Virgin mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 2.5kw inverter. 26MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem caps explained - October 2021 and April 2022
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
    13K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Many thanks QrizB, I think that wholesale price projection, and especially the rapid change (reduction) is extremely important, and useful in all these discussions as it gives us a great foundation on which to base guesstimates, especially with CfD prices moving towards those numbers in the last 5yrs.

    I wonder how it has changed now, could even be lower now (outside of FF price spikes), but so many moving parts, especially storage costs next decade?
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
  • QrizBQrizB Forumite
    6.6K Posts
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭
    OK, it's not very elegant but here is a chart of projected wholesale electricity prices, in p/kWh, for four years (2010/13/16/19):

    BEIS-prices
    The horizontal axis is year; "1" is 2001 and "40" is 2040.
    I've only been able to plot the numbers they've given; 2013s spreadsheet didn't include historical data (or at least, not as part of the table I was referring to). Also each year's line is in that year's money, which explains why the historical data creeps up the page.
    It clearly shows the spike in electricity prices in 2008. For reference, the equivalent spike for 2021 would go up to something like 11p (vs. the 2008 spike of about 8.5p in 2019 prices).
    Comapring the 2010, 2013 and 2016 forecasts to the actuals in the 2019 forecast, it seems to me that the forecasts aren't very accurate.
    And based on the 2019 forecast, a CfD at £50/MWH (5p/kWh) would pay a negative levy; £60/MWh would pay a small positive one.
    N. Hampshire, he/him. Octopus elec & gas / Voda BB / Virgin mobi. Ripple Kirk Hill member.
    2.72kWp PV facing SSW installed Jan 2012. 11 x 247w panels, 2.5kw inverter. 26MWh generated, long-term average 2.6 Os.
    Ofgem caps explained - October 2021 and April 2022
  • michaelsmichaels Forumite
    26.2K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    QrizB said:
    OK, it's not very elegant but here is a chart of projected wholesale electricity prices, in p/kWh, for four years (2010/13/16/19):

    BEIS-prices
    The horizontal axis is year; "1" is 2001 and "40" is 2040.
    I've only been able to plot the numbers they've given; 2013s spreadsheet didn't include historical data (or at least, not as part of the table I was referring to). Also each year's line is in that year's money, which explains why the historical data creeps up the page.
    It clearly shows the spike in electricity prices in 2008. For reference, the equivalent spike for 2021 would go up to something like 11p (vs. the 2008 spike of about 8.5p in 2019 prices).
    Comapring the 2010, 2013 and 2016 forecasts to the actuals in the 2019 forecast, it seems to me that the forecasts aren't very accurate.
    And based on the 2019 forecast, a CfD at £50/MWH (5p/kWh) would pay a negative levy; £60/MWh would pay a small positive one.
    Well it depends - that is if the output subject to the CfD sells into the market at the average price - currently each time the wind blows the price goes down and this effect is likely to magnify in the short term.
    I think....
  • Martyn1981Martyn1981 Forumite
    13K Posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hopefully the massive build out in the interconnecter capacity (roughly 7GW to 17GW) over the next 4yrs will run in line with offshore wind commissionings. But sadly, I doubt the internal transmission network will evolve fast enough to get the leccy to them in time. But perhaps in the medium term it'll all work out, which will also match the existing nuclear fleet ageing out, which will raise demand for other generation, such as wind too.
    Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW)

    For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Latest MSE News and Guides