Car missold

k3lvc

colino wrote: »

If a trader sells a one owner car without directly informing the potential buyer (if a consumer) it has been in a high risk category, he has broken the law.

Which 'law' have they broken ?

RS2000.

Car_54 wrote: »

Over the past few years I have part-exchanged four driving school cars. On each occasion the dealer has given me top book price. Doesn't that suggest they expected to get top price on re-selling?

Or maybe they're not giving you their best possible price on your new car.

Car_54

RS2000. wrote: »

Or maybe they're not giving you their best possible price on your new car.

The best possible price is pretty easily checked these days. Anyone who goes to buy a new car without researching it deserves to be ripped-off!

Ditto second-hand values. The days when Glass's guide was the only source, and protected by a veil of secrecy, are over.

motorguy

colino wrote: »

If a trader sells a one owner car without directly informing the potential buyer (if a consumer) it has been in a high risk category, he has broken the law.

High risk???? :rotfl:

Keep it in perspective please.

Whats "high risk" about buying a Focus with 12,000 miles on it at six months old from a main Ford dealer, a FSH and the balance of the manufacturers warranty??

And in reality, where do people think all these cars come from? Do they really believe theres masses of people out there or companies who change their cars at 10K miles or is it a bit of buyers remorse most of the time?

And really - breaking the law?? In the same category as clocking??

Sorry, but nonsense - you're basically saying your local VW dealer with a row of cars on his forecourt is as dodgy as some back street trader who clocks cars for a living.

Really - there needs to be a bit of common sense here.

colino

I'm not going to argue with you and I've no idea what point your trying to dodge, but if you ever did trade in cars in the UK, three points: You should have been very familiar with the, as was, OFTs Guidance on The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008: Vehicles identified as high risk, hire car, taxi and driving school are targeted in the same way as clocked cars. Traders should keep details of how they have checked their provenance and be able to demonstrate it. Finally, you will be well aware that if you conduct your business properly and proactively tell prospective buyers of their original use, most of the uninitiated will run a mile and everyone else will want a bargain.
Being in breach of the misleading omissions part of the regulations is a strict liability offence, they don't have to prove mens rea.

k3lvc

colino wrote: »

I'm not going to argue with you and I've no idea what point your trying to dodge, but if you ever did trade in cars in the UK, three points: You should have been very familiar with the, as was, OFTs Guidance on The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008: Vehicles identified as high risk, hire car, taxi and driving school are targeted in the same way as clocked cars. Traders should keep details of how they have checked their provenance and be able to demonstrate it. Finally, you will be well aware that if you conduct your business properly and proactively tell prospective buyers of their original use, most of the uninitiated will run a mile and everyone else will want a bargain.
Being in breach of the misleading omissions part of the regulations is a strict liability offence, they don't have to prove mens rea.

But you're talking about 'guidance' and quoting it as 'law'

I'm 'only' a consumer but in my job am well aware of Advertising Standards etc and have yet to ever see a car advertised as 'ex-hire car' or 'ex-driving school car'. Things are often advertised as ex-Management cars and a big point seems to be made of certain 'ex-Police cars'

Can you point to a single prosectution that has taken place for omitting to tell a buyer that the car was an ex-hire car ? Unless it is law/prosecutable then it's misleading on here to suggest that a buyer doesn't have to carry out their own due-diligence as the law will protect them

colino

Like I said, not interested in wasting my time arguing, but if someone claims to be a UK car trader and isn't very familiar with SOGA and CPR, they aint.

motorguy

colino wrote: »

I'm not going to argue with you and I've no idea what point your trying to dodge, but if you ever did trade in cars in the UK, three points: You should have been very familiar with the, as was, OFTs Guidance on The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008: Vehicles identified as high risk, hire car, taxi and driving school are targeted in the same way as clocked cars. Traders should keep details of how they have checked their provenance and be able to demonstrate it. Finally, you will be well aware that if you conduct your business properly and proactively tell prospective buyers of their original use, most of the uninitiated will run a mile and everyone else will want a bargain.
Being in breach of the misleading omissions part of the regulations is a strict liability offence, they don't have to prove mens rea.

.... and its exactly this sort of nonsense that makes me glad i'm out of the motor trade.

I still know a lot of motor traders. In fact i fairly friendly with several dealer principals and i would say with almost certainty that i'd get laughed at if i suggested they should be keeping a detailed log of how they've checked the provenance of every car on their forecourt. In fact i bought an Approved Used 5 series several years ago and it turns out they couldnt even tell me with certainty it had been serviced when challenged let alone its ownership provenance. And that was on a £25,000 car. You can imagine what the chances are on some £5K Ford Fiesta sitting on some used car lot.

For me, i did an HPI check, MOT check, mileage check and service history check, and i'd say that was beyond what 90% of traders do.

colino

I am disappointed that your think you are fairly friendly with Dealer Principals, and ones that neither know the law or have even the most basic paper trails of their assets. Crack on, clearly the integrity of running a business in a highly regulated industry was too much for you and considered above your head when they were having a laugh with you.
Even my very lazy local authority, apparently more interested to measure the hard standing each year to see if it has grown, would put out of business immediately a pitch that didn't have the most basic of records.
I'm sure you will find SOGA and CPR somewhere online, happy reading, or perhaps you will think they are only scary bedtime stories.

CKhalvashi

motorguy wrote: »

I'm nearly sure the dealer HAS to tell you if its ex hire, or ex driving school.

The dealer may not know.

My last car (2 years/120k miles) had no sign of what it had been used for when it was taken back, and was registered to me personally.

It had been used for none of the above, but unless the dealer is made aware, they surely can't advise on it?