Heating system for house with no gas

Cardew

lovesgshp wrote: »

A gshp can give a COP of 4 at 0C outside temperature with a 35C flow, with underfloor heating.
This reduces if the temperature required is @50C for rads @0C external, so goes to circa COP 3.

We have discussed this before. The theoretical output(COP) of a unit may well achieve 4.0, However the achievable system COP is way below that figure.


Read this, which is the only independent test of heat pumps that I am aware of in UK :


http://www.heatpumps.org.uk/PdfFiles/TheEnergySavingTrust-GettingWarmerAFieldTrialOfHeatPumps.pdf


A total of 47 Ground source Heat pumps were tested over a 12 month period - with manufacturers assisting in the trial and the system COP was 2.34.


Those results were disappointing so they extended the trial for a further 12 months and allowed manufacturers to make many alterations to improve performance including changing complete units in some cases.


http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/reports/TheHeatisOnweb(1).pdf


The average GSHP system COP was higher at 2.82. (ASHP was 2.45)


The point I was making is that there is no way that a GSHP COP is 'typically 4.0'.

captainhindsight_2

Cardew wrote: »

You don't need to tell me anything - I know you are wrong. It is other readers who might be fooled by the nonsense you spout.


Well if you are the expert, provide some proof to back up your statements about typical heatpump COPs.


Also tell the UK government, Energy Saving Trust and the major heat pump manufacturers(including Mitsubishi and Daiken) why their published 2 year trial results are rubbish.


'Being in the industry' is meaningless because you are seemingly some form of salesman and obviously have no technical background or you wouldn't spout the nonsense you come out with time and again.

First i didn't say i'm an expert you are the one claiming to be an expert even though you have zero first hand experience of renewables.

In regards to the reports they are dated the market moves on and learns from its mistakes this is what most people do. Mature and become wiser... most people but clearly not you!

And no i'm not a salesman.

In regards to proof look any any spec sheet for any heat pump and guess what they are right their in black and white.

captainhindsight_2

Cardew wrote: »

We have discussed this before. The theoretical output(COP) of a unit may well achieve 4.0, However the achievable system COP is way below that figure.


Read this, which is the only independent test of heat pumps that I am aware of in UK :


http://www.heatpumps.org.uk/PdfFiles/TheEnergySavingTrust-GettingWarmerAFieldTrialOfHeatPumps.pdf


A total of 47 Ground source Heat pumps were tested over a 12 month period - with manufacturers assisting in the trial and the system COP was 2.34.


Those results were disappointing so they extended the trial for a further 12 months and allowed manufacturers to make many alterations to improve performance including changing complete units in some cases.


http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/reports/TheHeatisOnweb(1).pdf


The average GSHP system COP was higher at 2.82. (ASHP was 2.45)


The point I was making is that there is no way that a GSHP COP is 'typically 4.0'.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

None of the heat pumps on that trial would achieve a cop of 4, because the best performing hp on that trial had a cop of 3.6 and actually achieved 3.3... lol.

They tested a range of heat pumps with a COP of 1.3-3.6, so i'm not surprised they didnt achieve COP of 4 :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :T:T:T:T:T

Technology and design and installations skills get better over time.

You are using old technology with COP much lower that what is on the market today and design and skill sets are much higher today that they were when this report was done. Even mitsubishi are only just starting to offer a good support network in the UK with their own engineers and Vailant probable been at the forefront of manufactures support and they only started doing that about a year ago.

Time and time again you just highlight how little you know about the industry and how much bad advice you give

Cardew

captainhindsight wrote: »

They tested a range of heat pumps with a COP of 1.3-3.6, so i'm not surprised they didnt achieve COP of 4 :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl: :T:T:T:T:T

Really? Really?


They tested a heat pump with a COP of 1.3 - wow! I wonder who manufactured such an appliance.


You quite obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and in the business too!


Can you read any form of technical report? I mean read it and understand what is written!

captainhindsight_2

Cardew wrote: »

Really? Really?


They tested a heat pump with a COP of 1.3 - wow! I wonder who manufactured such an appliance.


You quite obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and in the business too!


Can you read any form of technical report? I mean read it and understand what is written!

Page 16 shows the range of heat pumps tested. Can you not read?

I know a hell of a lot more than most, especially you judging by what you write on here! :T:T:T:T:T

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

lovesgshp

Can we please get this into some form of perspective. Yes a GSHP can possibly give a COP of 4 @ 0C, dependant on the model. The UK studies, admit that they are not as efficient as those in Europe.
From a lot of the posts of the GSHP forum, many seem to be undersized or poor initial setup.
I have heat curves for a range of GSHP/ASHP in the IVT units.
In any situation, the COP will reduce with external temperature reduction, so there will be a average.
For example: The C9 has a COP of 4 @ 0c for UFH. At -5C, this drops to circa 3.7.

Cardew

captainhindsight wrote: »

Page 16 shows the range of heat pumps tested. Can you not read?

I know a hell of a lot more than most, especially you judging by what you write on here! :T:T:T:T:T

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

If you get into a hole - stop digging.


To anyone with even a tiny amount of technical knowledge you simply are making yourself a laughing stock.


Pray give us details of the heat pump they tested that has a COP of 1.3!

Smiley_Dan

Here we go again.

captainhindsight_2

Cardew wrote: »

If you get into a hole - stop digging.


To anyone with even a tiny amount of technical knowledge you simply are making yourself a laughing stock.


Pray give us details of the heat pump they tested that has a COP of 1.3!

Can you not read the report that you posted, my god you two really are the scourge on mse

lovesgshp

I do not know if you are referring to me as a scourge on mse, but let me give you some facts.
I work with a geothermal company in Italy, that has been established since 1999 and only deals with geothermal type installations. No gas, pellets etc, just GSHP, Air/Water and Air/Air. I have worked with them for about 10 years now, so probably know a little of what I am talking about.
The senior engineer/ owner of the company is fully certified and has to attend refresher courses every 2 years, to continue certification for the following:
US IGSHPA Accredited Installer
US AEE Certified Geoexchange Designer

He also writes papers for different conferences, which you can have a look at, which show problems, options for solutions etc. Just open the PDF file links.
http://www.geotherm.it/Ricerca_scientifica_geotermia.html