Was the MSE Collective Switch a sprat to catch a mackerel?

System

Got my Final Electricity Bill from E.oN today - 10 days after the switch. I cannot complain about E.oN's billing efficiency. I consumed 152kWhs of electricity last month. Of note, my Estimated Consumption for the past 12 months fell from 3367 to 3216kWhs (that is, it fell by as much as I used which suggests that the figure that E.oN was anticipating for the month was close to 300kWhs). Had I stayed with E.oN, I have no doubt that the Estimated Consumption figure would have fallen (by February 2016) to the EAC figure that was passed to E.oN when I switched of 2587kWhs. (actual consumption for the 12 month period up to 30 June was 2498kWhs). It is a pity that there are not more Malcs in the E.oN CS and Complaints Teams.

Edit:

My last post on this topic - I hope. My new supplier has just set up my online electricity account. It has a very useful graph that shows 'How much energy we expect you to use' broken down into months (weighted monthly average consumption). The figures quoted per month add up, not surprisingly perhaps, to an EAC figure (as quoted in an earlier post above) of 2587kWhs not to the 3536.54kWhs as quoted on my first E.oN bill. As I said in an earlier post, I suspect E.oN has an IT input issue here and I just wonder if it has anything to do with large collective switches? Perhaps Dan at MSE CEC might like to comment.

victor2

New2Forum wrote: »

Just be careful that you're not storing up problems for your relatives for later if you reduce it beyond their consumption (as you already noted, previously the DD was too low, so they'll have some catching up to do). Personally, I don't view it as a bad thing to have a zero balance after a year, regardless of whether it is at a high consumption or low consumption point.

I could see what was happening, and had made them aware that the DD was too low, so to expect an increase. It also took E.On over a month to take the first payment, so one was effectively missed. I very nearly said the amount should be increased, or at least an extra payment be made to even things out a bit. However, we concluded that the excess might as well remain in their account until E.On asked for it.
So, the DD increase (from £68 to £157) was not entirely unexpected, it's just the size of it that shocked them a bit - and surprised me too, as their usage cost is about £90/month, the rest is to hit a zero balance by next February. There is only limited movement allowed in the online adjustment tool. One option will be to clear the debit now with a single payment and then adjust the DD to just the forecasted actual usage, which E.On will do.
My main point is that I can explain the huge increase, but the situation that caused it was not dictated by the customer, it was totally created by E.On. The usage pattern did not change much, and they've been an E.on customer for a few years now, A change in customer name was necessary and caused a restart in effect.

I can see people who don't have the ability (or don't take the time) to analyse their bills just accepting a nice low DD amount, only to be completely overwhelmed by it being more than doubled some months later.
My lesson learned is not to accept a DD being too low. Adjust it to reflect 1/12 of your predicted usage cost. Ideally, you want to spend half the year with a debit balance and the other half in credit as the idea of equal monthly payments is to pay for what you use over the year. You start at zero and should be at zero a year later if payments are more accurately calculated from the beginning.

New2Forum

Hengus wrote: »

I suspect E.oN has an IT input issue here

I hypothesised this exact same possibility to Malc in my email to him on Friday evening.

Something is going wrong somewhere. It may be upstream of E.On and nothing they can directly control (but can put pressure on the people getting it wrong), it may be an issue within their systems - but it should be worth getting to the bottom of (if it is as widespread as we fear/suspect).

Hengus wrote: »

It is a pity that there are not more Malcs in the E.oN CS and Complaints Teams.

The support we are getting from Malc is phenomenal, and can inspire huge confidence in him, and subsequently in the company he represents. However it isn't fair on CS to compare that with what they provide - I would imagine that they simply don't have the ability to spend the same amount of time per customer/query as Malc does.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi New2Forum. Hope our offline discussion has been useful. Just spotted a couple of things in recent posts that I thought it might be useful for others if I commented on.

New2Forum wrote: »

Thanks Hengus - who was it you contacted for your specific EAC and AQ.

I could almost understand this being important if E.On had set the high direct debit levels 7 months ago when I switched ... but they didn't - it cannot suddenly be important now, now that E.On actually have 7 months worth of meter readings available (which substantiate the accuracy of the DD levels set for the last 7 months).

[FONT=&quot]With a change of supplier, the initial quote/payment arrangement is based on the information customers give us at the time of the switch. Arrangements are checked regularly but changes, if necessary, are only made at the mid-term and annual reviews. These are based on information we hold from the start of the account up to the review plus, in the case of new accounts, details given us as part of the Change of Supplier journey. For electricity, this will be the Estimated Annual Consumption (EAC) Hengus talks about above.
[/FONT]

New2Forum wrote: »

I've received 2 letters from E.On today (both in the same envelope).


Letter 1
- Notification that they are increasing my DD from £39.50 a month to £82 a month from 1st August 2015
- Explanation that this is worked out as my current balance of £31.62 plus their view that I will use £458.29 worth of electric between now and the annual review on 18th January 2016
- Their expectation that my account balance will be £0 at the next annual review


Letter 2
- Notification that I have used the online DD manager to reduce my DD payments from £82 per month to £66 per month
- Their expectation that my account balance will be £0 at the next annual review


Two things I found interesting in the letters;
1) I now know what date they are working to (18th January 2016), and so how long they are planning on charging me at their standard rate (obviously I'll either switch before then or reselect a different tariff). Its later than I assumed, by about 6 weeks (weird that the 12 month review is carried out after 13.5 months!), But I'm pretty sure that isn't the issue, but rather its the inaccuracy of their estimated usage.
2) They expect a zero balance on my account if I pay £82 per month and they expect a zero balance on my account if I pay £66 per month. That doesn't add up!

Payment alterations through the online Direct Debit Manager are based on predicted new circumstances that's expected will affect future usage. We take the customer's word that usage will change to the levels predicted. That's why both letters talk about an expected zero balance. The first letter (£82 per month) is based on our review/predicted usage. The second (£66 per month) accepts usage will fall to the level advised. The Direct Debit Manager will, though, tell customers what the balance at the annual review will be if the new amount is confirmed but usage doesn't change as expected.

Direct Debit reviews don't automatically follow the tariff. They go from the date of the first payment up to a point approx 12 months later. For instance, if a 1 year fixed tariff starts on 1 January but the first payment isn't made until 1 February, the annual review will be round about the beginning of the following February and not at the end of the tariff.

New2Forum wrote: »

The support we are getting from Malc is phenomenal, and can inspire huge confidence in him, and subsequently in the company he represents. However it isn't fair on CS to compare that with what they provide - I would imagine that they simply don't have the ability to spend the same amount of time per customer/query as Malc does.

Thanks for the kind words New2Forum. They're very much appreciated. You're spot on, I've that bit more time and resources to look deeper in to queries than some of my colleagues in the Call Centres.

Hope this answers the outstanding queries but you know where I am if you need any more information.

Malc

New2Forum

Many thanks Malc - I can confirmed that both accounts have had their issues resolved. I appreciate the substantial time you have spent in resolving this for me.


A brief summary of the major points of what we covered offline:
- My direct debit has been reset back to £39.50
- My parents direct debit has been reset back to £51
- Malc agreed that the E.On DD proposed amendments were incorrect, based substantially on the incorrect Average Daily Consumption (ADC) figures held from our previous supplier (EDF). The numbers E.On held on their systems did not match the consumption shown on my EDF bills. It is not known where this error came from (whether it bad data from EDF, or a bad data import from E.On). Malc has assured me (and I trust him completely on this) that the levels of complaints on this issue do not indicate a widespread problem.
- We did identify an error, on both my account and my parents account, in the way E.On calculated the new DD size. It came through considering expected consumption between the new DD amount being notified and being implemented (1st July and 1st August in my case) but not considering expected DD payments within this period. Again, Malc has assured me (and I trust him on this) that this is not usually the case and it was being investigated internally. We didn't discuss it, but I can conceive that the Bill Date and DD date both being 1st July could have impacted this.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

victor2 wrote: »

Slightly different case involving E.On, but I am helping with a relative's account and while we were expecting an increase of around 50% because I could see the DD was too low, they've proposed increasing it by 130%.
This is mainly because the contract "anniversary" is February and they're looking to have a zero balance by then. That is typically when you would expect to have the biggest negative balance, so it means the account will probably always be in credit.
Should even itself out after this first year on the contract is done, but still hurts the homeowner when they see E.On say you're not paying enough - after they set the DD amount in the first place.

victor2 wrote: »

I could see what was happening, and had made them aware that the DD was too low, so to expect an increase. It also took E.On over a month to take the first payment, so one was effectively missed. I very nearly said the amount should be increased, or at least an extra payment be made to even things out a bit. However, we concluded that the excess might as well remain in their account until E.On asked for it.
So, the DD increase (from £68 to £157) was not entirely unexpected, it's just the size of it that shocked them a bit - and surprised me too, as their usage cost is about £90/month, the rest is to hit a zero balance by next February. There is only limited movement allowed in the online adjustment tool. One option will be to clear the debit now with a single payment and then adjust the DD to just the forecasted actual usage, which E.On will do.
My main point is that I can explain the huge increase, but the situation that caused it was not dictated by the customer, it was totally created by E.On. The usage pattern did not change much, and they've been an E.on customer for a few years now, A change in customer name was necessary and caused a restart in effect.

I can see people who don't have the ability (or don't take the time) to analyse their bills just accepting a nice low DD amount, only to be completely overwhelmed by it being more than doubled some months later.
My lesson learned is not to accept a DD being too low. Adjust it to reflect 1/12 of your predicted usage cost. Ideally, you want to spend half the year with a debit balance and the other half in credit as the idea of equal monthly payments is to pay for what you use over the year. You start at zero and should be at zero a year later if payments are more accurately calculated from the beginning.

Hi victor2

That's certainly a big jump. Do you know why we suggested setting the original payments so low? Monthly Direct Debits are based on past usage and current prices with the aim of reaching as near as possible to a zero balance by the annual review. Each assessment follows this formula and stops advisors setting different amounts unless overridden because we're told of new circumstances. We try to make sure accounts don't have too much credit/debit.

It looks like the account has just gone through its mid-term review. The new payments will include the debt. This will be spread over the remaining months up to the annual review so increasing the payments.

Sometimes, where a customer asks for a specific date for payments to be taken, it's too late for the current month and the first payment will be delayed. I suspect this has happened to your relatives. Again, the missing amount will be spread over the months up to the annual review. This should've been explained at the time and I'm sorry if it wasn't. You're right, clearing the debt will let us reduce their payments to cover the ongoing usage only.

The online Direct Debit Manager will let your relatives change their payments by up to 20 per cent up or down provided the account is billed up to the latest meter readings. By up to 5 per cent up or down without readings. As New2Forum says, it's best to use this only if usage is expected to change. If it doesn't, a lower/higher amount will create too much debit/credit down the line.

You mention a change of name and a restart. Did this mean closing one account and opening another? This is sometimes necessary where responsibility for the bills changes and could've had an impact on the payment arrangement.

Sorry for all the questions victor2. Trying to understand what's happened. Happy to take a look if you drop an email to the address in my Profile.

Malc

Foxychox

Interested to read this, exactly the same has happened to me (DD of £78 increased to £125). And no, I am not using a lot more energy before that comment comes up again. We had a "meter reading" done by EON about 2 months ago, the guy was completely unprofessional and didn't take any note of the readings, just looked at the meters I guess to check that they were working OK. I was then asked to provide another reading this week when this bombshell was dropped. I was with EDF for about 3 years prior to this switch and my DD remained the same throughout the year. I'm not staying with EON, I'll pay what I owe and probably go back to EDF. Sorry MSE team but this switch has not worked out for me and my family.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi Foxychox and welcome to the Forums.

I'm sorry you were unhappy with the way our meter reader behaved. I'm assuming no readings were sent to us following this visit. Have some previous bills been estimated? If they have, you may have received a catch up bill following some under-estimates. This might have skewed calculations.

Also, has a debit balance built up as a result of under estimated bills? If it has, this will be included in the arrangement and spread evenly up to the annual review. This will lead to an increase.

Sometimes, at the start of an arrangement, the day chosen for payments to be collected can be too late for the first month. This means a payment is missed and the account runs a month behind until the midterm review. This can result in a debit balance which, as above, will be included in the ongoing arrangement.

I'm speculating a lot here Foxychox and sorry if none of this applies to you. Even though you're moving, you can still use the Direct Debit Manager I've spoken about in this thread up until the account is applied for. There's more information there that might be of interest.

Malc

Feral_Moon

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