Was the MSE Collective Switch a sprat to catch a mackerel?

New2Forum

I'm a bit confused by the "data collectors" (googling is only really showing commercial properties information) - are the "data collectors" a separate independent body, or simply the previous supplier? (i.e. Is my current data collector E.On, and before that, EDF)


I see E.On are recruiting "Data Collectors", but this seems to basically be meter readers....

System

Sorry - can't help with that one except I note that G4S lists its services as meter reading and data collection for various suppliers. As DECC produces frequent reports on domestic energy consumption, I assume that there must be some great database in the Cloud that all meter readers and suppliers feed meter readings in to.

New2Forum

I've received 2 letters from E.On today (both in the same envelope).


Letter 1
- Notification that they are increasing my DD from £39.50 a month to £82 a month from 1st August 2015
- Explanation that this is worked out as my current balance of £31.62 plus their view that I will use £458.29 worth of electric between now and the annual review on 18th January 2016
- Their expectation that my account balance will be £0 at the next annual review


Letter 2
- Notification that I have used the online DD manager to reduce my DD payments from £82 per month to £66 per month
- Their expectation that my account balance will be £0 at the next annual review


Two things I found interesting in the letters;
1) I now know what date they are working to (18th January 2016), and so how long they are planning on charging me at their standard rate (obviously I'll either switch before then or reselect a different tariff). Its later than I assumed, by about 6 weeks (weird that the 12 month review is carried out after 13.5 months!), But I'm pretty sure that isn't the issue, but rather its the inaccuracy of their estimated usage.
2) They expect a zero balance on my account if I pay £82 per month and they expect a zero balance on my account if I pay £66 per month. That doesn't add up!

System

I can't wait for Malc's explanation. I agree that the issue here is exaggerated estimated annual usage at sign up which distorts the DD calculations for the first year.

New2Forum

New2Forum wrote: »

Although the CS rep did "apologise again for your Direct Debit being increased unnecessarily", so far as I can understand it, the DD was not reset back to £39.50.

Actually it seems I was wrong there - Just had another letter through from E.On (dated 3rd July), this one confirming that my DD has been reduced back to £39.50. They still expect my balance to be 0 at the next annual review with this new payment


So everything, it appears, is resolved so far as my account goes, however I would appreciate it if Malc could continue to investigate for me (I managed to get my account numbers over to him this morning and he has advised he expects to get back to me tomorrow). Specifically:
- My parents DD has been increased to a similar level (£81 per month, reduced to £65 by me in the DD manager). I haven't chased this up with customer services in the same way as I did with my account, so they haven't had the opportunity to set it to more reasonable levels.
- As I said from the beginning, my main concern wasn't so much with reducing my DD, but more in asking E.On to verify that there isn't a structural issue with the forecasts, which make absolutely no sense to me. I still believe there is something fundamentally wrong with the E.On methodology for forecasting annual usage and this is what I hope Malc can get to the bottom of for us.

New2Forum

Just to confirm - I have received a very thorough and comprehensive response from Malc. There's a lot of useful and informative information, and I am still working through it, getting my head around everything and responding.

The core issue though, in my case, was as suspected, the "Average Daily Consumption" figures provided by the "central database looked after by an independent body". The specific usage estimates for me are below (I've blacked out my meter number - no idea if that is exploitable in the public domain, but not publishing it just in case)




Clearly the provided figures for October and November are the issue and not accurate. Malc is unable to explain why they are so far out (they are not E.On generated figures, though E.On do rely on them) and I have no explanation (there were no billing issues, incorrect meter readings etc with EDF - as you can see from my spreadsheet, usage was pretty consistent).


It would be great to know how the independent body are so far out with October and November usage, but I don't know if that is possible - I am asking malc whether it is possible for either him or me to approach the body for an explanation.


Depending on how far they look back (and across other residents) I suspect prior to 2011 usage was substantially higher - at this time a log burner was fitted, to replace electric heating. There have also historically been more people living here than just myself now. However I can't imagine they look that far back do they? And even if they do, why would December-January for example be ok?


Overall, I think I agree with Hengus comment above as the best way to avoid this: “All that is needed is a simple check that the kWhs estimates provided by the customer when switching are broadly in line with past usage provided by the DC so the DD is right. Result: Happy customer; happy company - falling number of complaints etc.”.


I think there might be a small structural issue with the way E.On calculate the DDs, which by my calculations led to my DD being £82 instead of £77.50 - but I wont go into that any more for the moment before Malc has had a look at how I have interpreted and understood the information provided (which won't be before at least next Tuesday - it seems they give him weekends off ). However the overall impact of that does not, in my case, account for the majority of the suggested increase in my DD.


Just to be clear - even before this response from Malc, my DD has been reset to £39.50 from the proposed £82, so that issue has gone away - further investigation is just about understanding what happened.

System

Glad that you have some form of considered response from E.oN. What about your parents' increased DD?

New2Forum

Hengus wrote: »

Glad that you have some form of considered response from E.oN. What about your parents' increased DD?

We haven't dealt with that yet - Malc has offered me the same in depth response on that account probably early next week.
I have created the same spreadsheet for them as I did on my account. Their usage is a little more inconsistent than mine, so its harder to forecast, however it seems clear that the E.On forecast is inaccurate (too high) - presumably for the same reasons as mine (inaccurate independent central database forecasts). From my best estimates, I calculated a reasonable DD to be £49.94, so I have suggested that I would view it as reasonable if their DD was set back to what it was before (£51 per month). Assuming he finds no errors in my maths, I would be surprised if Malc did not reset it to this level.


It would be good to know more about the "independent central database" - if its affecting the DDs of a lot of those who switch their electric companies, and if substantial errors are relatively commonplace, then there should be more transparency to this organisation! I wonder what accountability they have, and to whom?

victor2

Slightly different case involving E.On, but I am helping with a relative's account and while we were expecting an increase of around 50% because I could see the DD was too low, they've proposed increasing it by 130%.
This is mainly because the contract "anniversary" is February and they're looking to have a zero balance by then. That is typically when you would expect to have the biggest negative balance, so it means the account will probably always be in credit.
Should even itself out after this first year on the contract is done, but still hurts the homeowner when they see E.On say you're not paying enough - after they set the DD amount in the first place.

New2Forum

E.On do allow the users to manage their direct debit amount themselves (within limits) through the online direct debit manager - it sounds like in your relatives case there could be enough wiggle room to satisfy your needs? When they wanted to put my direct debit up to £82, I was able to reduce it automatically as far as £66 - so in the eyes of E.On a £16 per month shortfall.


Just be careful that you're not storing up problems for your relatives for later if you reduce it beyond their consumption (as you already noted, previously the DD was too low, so they'll have some catching up to do). Personally, I don't view it as a bad thing to have a zero balance after a year, regardless of whether it is at a high consumption or low consumption point.


If they switched to E.On within the last year (last February?) then I would also verify the E.On forecasts (ignore costs - just look at E.Ons projected 12 month kWh usage, which is on every bill and compare it to historic consumption.)