Was the MSE Collective Switch a sprat to catch a mackerel?

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Ah! I see. You're using the new MSE Forums format. We're still on the old version. Here's a link to the relevant page.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/member.php?u=646547

We're using Firefox rather than Internet Explorer. This might make a difference. I've had a look at the new format through Explorer and come up with the same page you've posted. You're right, there's no email address there. I'll report this to MSE and ask if they'll let me post the address on the open forum.

Thanks New2Forum.

Malc

New2Forum

Thanks malc - unfortunately I don't seem to be able to do anything to get to the old version - I've tried IE, Chrome and Firefox, and also tried InPrivate (and equivalents) - they all come up with the new version

New2Forum

PS We posted at about the same time earlier this afternoon - you might have missed the post where I put the CS response - I realise there's probably nothing you can add until you have my account details.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi New2Forum

I think our posts crossed earlier but don't worry, I've read it. You're right, to make a meaningful comment, I really need to have a look at the account. I've contacted MSE Towers and asked them to update our Profiles in the new version of MSE. In the meantime, I've asked them if it's okay to pop our details on the open forum. Just mindful of the rules and don't want to risk being booted off.

Malc

System

New2Forum wrote: »

I've received a response from E.On customer service (credit where its due - surprisingly fast reply) however am not really happy, or convinced by, the response:

The reasons that I'm not convinced:
- The impact of the timing of receipt of the £39.50 Direct Debit should not be substantial enough to have any meaningful impact on an increase on a monthly direct debit from £39.50 to £82. (though I will in future mitigate this by sending my meter readings, and generating new bills 1 day after the DD is paid)
- I'm not convinced by the seasonality argument - I've been through the coldest months of the year (December to February) with my direct debit of £39.50 being enough to keep the account in good standing - it makes no sense to me at all to increase my Direct Debit to £82 to cover next winter when £39.50 was enough to cover last winter! (and if my understanding of the annual review dates is correct, I will only have 1 month away from the fixed prices I'm currently on - even if I don't switch)


Although the CS rep did "apologise again for your Direct Debit being increased unnecessarily", so far as I can understand it, the DD was not reset back to £39.50.

The comment about not being able to see the estimated usage information in E.oN's response made me look a little deeper into how past usage data is passed from one supplier to another:

This was the response that I got back from 'Industry' (cut 'n' paste):

Every property has usage consumption figures on record which are recorded by 70 years of weather data. These figures are called your EAC (estimated annual consumption) and AQ (annual quantity) for your Electricity and Gas. They are validated by the energy industry for record and every time you give your supplier a reading this is updated.

When switching between suppliers the supplier will be passed this information by the DC (date collectors) in order to have an average idea of the level of energy user that customer is.

Direct Debits will be estimated on this basis, once a customer gives regular readings there is a better understanding of how much that customer uses. This of course will vary between seasons, the EAC and AQ for your property are as follows 2587 kwh Electricity and 8769 kwh Gas.

The quoted EAC and AQ figures in the industry response for my property bear absolutely no relation to the estimated usage figures (over estimated by 32 to 37%) shown on my first E.oN bill.

New2Forum

Thanks Hengus - who was it you contacted for your specific EAC and AQ.


I could almost understand this being important if E.On had set the high direct debit levels 7 months ago when I switched ... but they didn't - it cannot suddenly be important now, now that E.On actually have 7 months worth of meter readings available (which substantiate the accuracy of the DD levels set for the last 7 months).


I don't know what it is yet (hopefully Malc will get to the bottom of it when he gets my account details), but I'm becoming more convinced that there's something systematically wrong with the way its working (as opposed to just an error on my account) - and from what you've been saying (and my previous switching experiences), something specific to E.On.


Malc - if nothing has come back from MSE towers when you are next on, on Tuesday, could you maybe activate your PM's, PM me your contact details, and then deactivate your PMs again? (assuming you have control over the activation of your PMs)

System

New2Forum wrote: »

Thanks Hengus - who was it you contacted for your specific EAC and AQ.


I could almost understand this being important if E.On had set the high direct debit levels 7 months ago when I switched ... but they didn't - it cannot suddenly be important now, now that E.On actually have 7 months worth of meter readings available (which substantiate the accuracy of the DD levels set for the last 7 months).




I don't know what it is yet (hopefully Malc will get to the bottom of it when he gets my account details), but I'm becoming more convinced that there's something systematically wrong with the way its working (as opposed to just an error on my account) - and from what you've been saying (and my previous switching experiences), something specific to E.On.


Malc - if nothing has come back from MSE towers when you are next on, on Tuesday, could you maybe activate your PM's, PM me your contact details, and then deactivate your PMs again? (assuming you have control over the activation of your PMs)

There is a slight irony here. I obtained the EAC and AQ figures from my old supplier; that is, the supplier that I was with prior to my switch to E.oN. They are the same as the figures quoted on my last bill with them dated Jan 15, and exactly in line with my usage over the past 12 months.

Even with advancing years, I quite like doing sums so, as an exercise in mental agility, I have back calculated - using consumption over the first month, and estimated annual usage figures on my first E.oN bill in April - that my estimated usage figures for billing purposes were originally set at c. 13000kWhs for gas and 3775kWhs for electricity - compared to the AQ and AC figures for my property of 8769kWhs and 2587kWhs.

If I take the above figures and apply them to the tariff that I was on, then the annual supply cost would be £896.83. If I then deduct the £234.00 already paid, then the balance of £662.83 equates to a revised monthly payment of £73.65. E.oN's energy monitor was showing a revised monthly payment of £73 per month. MY DD was due for six monthly review in September: it follows that on the basis of the very high estimated annual usage figures being used by E.oN, and the fact that I was paying only £58.50 per month, then I could expect E.oN's system to demand a higher payment (i.e.: more than £73 per month) for the remaining 6 months of my contract.

My advice to anyone finding themselves in this situation ( a massive increase in the DD payment, 6 months after switching) is:

a. Check the Estimated 12 months usage figures on the bill.

b. Challenge E.oN and ask them to provide the EAC and AQ figures for your property, and ask them to explain why these have not been used on your first bill? (may be modified slightly by your first set of readings which should be seasonally weighted).

In sum, I would like to think that this is an IT system issue which E.oN now needs to resolve.

New2Forum

I've put all my meter readings and estimates for EDF and E.On into a spreadsheet. The difference between E.On forecasting and EDF forecasting is night and day! (Whilst E.On may use the excuse of having no previous history - neither did EDF when I switched to them on 9th January 2014). I cannot remember who I was with prior to EDF. It MIGHT have been E.On lol.


Something definitely went wrong with E.Ons first estimate - and I would expect it wasn't my submission, because the direct debit was set in line with my forecast when I switched...


The spike in July usage was because I had to use my emersion heater for hot water - that's broken down at the moment though, so a bit of a fall expected next month....

New2Forum

The forum doesn't show the full image - can be viewed here: http://i.imgur.com/0Era7W8.jpg

System

New2Forum wrote: »

(Whilst E.On may use the excuse of having no previous history - neither did EDF when I switched to them on 9th January 2014)..

I think that the key point here is that all gaining suppliers are passed the usage history for your property:

When switching between suppliers the supplier will be passed this information by the DC (data collectors) in order to have an average idea of the level of energy ........

All that is needed is a simple check that the kWhs estimates provided by the customer when switching are broadly in line with past usage provided by the DC so the DD is right. Result: Happy customer; happy company - falling number of complaints etc.