Brexit

Sapphire

Generali wrote: »

Under the Section 9.1 of the Equality Act 2010, race is defined as being:

- colour
- nationality
- ethnic or national origins

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9

So under the law you are wrong.

Then the law is a donkey – and I see it is dated to just 2010, and was no doubt introduced to satisfy the PC brigade. Very good.

Rather than waste time posting yet another message saying the same thing as I've said elsewhere, I'll quote from this:

'…the majority of current immigrants from Poland are hardworking and pleasant people, with no axe to grind and with a strong work ethic – something that is lacking in many "British yoofs" [named thus in post to which I was responding] and "traditional British workers", who were/still are often arrogant, rude and expensive, and down tools at the slightest opportunity. So when it comes to Poles, I welcome their input to this country, which is advantageous. I also hope that eventually a work ethic will be instilled in the afore-mentioned "traditional British worker" types, and that they will become productive.

What does concern me a lot (scares me, in fact) is the influx of people of different cultures, with completely different values from those of Europeans, many of whom do not even like us or understand us, do not wish to integrate, and wish us harm, and who mostly appear to come here because of the "benefits". Many such people come here via the European mainland, and are able to do so due to EU regulations. Hiding our heads in the sand as regards this issue is storing up huge problems for the future, I feel.'

Branding someone as a 'racist' at the slightest hint that they may threaten your vested interests because they disagree with over-population and obvious threats to their country (as made clear by certain parties in the ME, for instance), etc, is not racist, in my view. I am not in the least against other 'races' per se.
:cool:

ruggedtoast

ChiefGrasscutter wrote: »

...and for contrast---I'll be voting to leave
Why?
'cos when I worked exporting from the UK, our products were accepted and welcomed across the world - except in the core countries of the EU where ever more spurious reasons were invented to prevent out products being considered. All of course to protect their own manufacturers. We used to play the game by quoting prices basically at cost with zero profit safe in the knowledge that someone would find a reason to reject the tender while we could send them apoplectic with rage at our excellent prices - with no risk of them actually placing the order.
...and so it went on year after year - single market my assssss.

The EU is just one huge scam into which we put a huge amount of money and out of which we get the odd titbit along with umpteen regulations of which none of the rest bother about enforcing.

France is the worst and I refuse under any circumstance to go to the country and I am not alone.
Frankly I'd never have stopped bombing them
I simply hate the EU.

The reasoned view of the Out voter there.

Demonstrates that there should be some kind of general competence test before handing out polling cards.

ruggedtoast

Cameron has announced that 16 / 17 year olds will not be allowed to vote.

So we get ranting racist loonies like the guy above, who are probably retired or near it, affecting the future of teenagers that they won't be around themselves to see.

1,000,0000 British resident who hail from the EU will be similarly disenfranchised. So we get ranting racist loonies, like the guy above, who are doubtless a drain on the state, but a gainfully employed man or woman who has been here for years gets no say.

Brits in the EU also get no say, but Commonwealth citizens who have just arrived do.

It's hard to keep believing the Tories want us to stay in. Cameron is making every bit as big a mess of this at the outset as he did with Scotland.

chewmylegoff

Immigration is a red herring really as whether or not we are in the EU would appear to make little difference. If you believe that exiting the EU would allow us to "control" our borders you need only consider the latest figures on immigration from non-EU countries. If you made all the EU countries into non-EU countries by leaving the EU then immigration from those countries would just move into a different bucket; it would still happen and politicians on both sides have demonstrated a lack of interest in controlling immigration from non-EU countries.

Personally I am quite likely to vote to exit in the referendum not because I think it would solve any particular issues which are allegedly caused by immigration. I just fundamentally do not agree with the "European project" or the concept of harmonisation of laws across an enormous and disparate bloc - it is hard enough to find common ground with the Scots at the moment let alone more distant EU states. I don't believe politican harmonisation is viable in the long term - it goes against basic human nature - I think we are best out of it now before it gets much sillier and before the EU expands to attempt to incorporate even more countries - the larger it becomes the more undemocratic it is from the perspective of the people of each separate member state. I am happy for this to impact my wealth although frankly I am far from convinced that an exit would have a huge negative impact.

ruggedtoast

Sapphire wrote: »

Then the law is a donkey – and I see it is dated to just 2010, and was no doubt introduced to satisfy the PC brigade. Very good.

Rather than waste time posting yet another message saying the same thing as I've said elsewhere, I'll quote from this:

'…the majority of current immigrants from Poland are hardworking and pleasant people, with no axe to grind and with a strong work ethic – something that is lacking in many "British yoofs" [named thus in post to which I was responding] and "traditional British workers", who were/still are often arrogant, rude and expensive, and down tools at the slightest opportunity. So when it comes to Poles, I welcome their input to this country, which is advantageous. I also hope that eventually a work ethic will be instilled in the afore-mentioned "traditional British worker" types, and that they will become productive.

What does concern me a lot (scares me, in fact) is the influx of people of different cultures, with completely different values from those of Europeans, many of whom do not even like us or understand us, do not wish to integrate, and wish us harm, and who mostly appear to come here because of the "benefits". Many such people come here via the European mainland, and are able to do so due to EU regulations. Hiding our heads in the sand as regards this issue is storing up huge problems for the future, I feel.'

Branding someone as a 'racist' at the slightest hint that they may threaten your vested interests because they disagree with over-population and obvious threats to their country (as made clear by certain parties in the ME, for instance), etc, is not racist, in my view. I am not in the least against other 'races' per se.
:cool:

This is just not true, and there is another Out voter lining up to make his / her mark based on complete falsehood.

The UK is a self signatory of the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees which agrees to take a certain number of asylum seekers. This has nothing to do with Europe, or free movement within the EU, and voting us out of Europe will not stop economic migrants coming into the EU and lining up at Sangatte to climb on a lorry (which incidentally the French stop them from doing)

I have no idea what these "EU regulations" are that you think welcomes people who "don't like us" into our borders. The only legal route into any EU country for a non national is via an asylum application, a residence application, or a reciprocal visa agreement. I suspect if you bothered to find out , most of these people who "dont like you" are from Commonwealth countries, the bulk of which settled after the war when the UK was short of labour.

As far as racism goes. One might say that doing nothing whatsoever to disillusion oneself of total mistruths, all of which seem to be related to race and immigration, is actually a bit racist after all, and a rather ubiquitous feature of the "ranting down the pub" UKIP voter.

Generali

Sapphire wrote: »

Then the law is a donkey – and I see it is dated to just 2010, and was no doubt introduced to satisfy the PC brigade. Very good.

Rather than waste time posting yet another message saying the same thing as I've said elsewhere, I'll quote from this:

'…the majority of current immigrants from Poland are hardworking and pleasant people, with no axe to grind and with a strong work ethic – something that is lacking in many "British yoofs" [named thus in post to which I was responding] and "traditional British workers", who were/still are often arrogant, rude and expensive, and down tools at the slightest opportunity. So when it comes to Poles, I welcome their input to this country, which is advantageous. I also hope that eventually a work ethic will be instilled in the afore-mentioned "traditional British worker" types, and that they will become productive.

What does concern me a lot (scares me, in fact) is the influx of people of different cultures, with completely different values from those of Europeans, many of whom do not even like us or understand us, do not wish to integrate, and wish us harm, and who mostly appear to come here because of the "benefits". Many such people come here via the European mainland, and are able to do so due to EU regulations. Hiding our heads in the sand as regards this issue is storing up huge problems for the future, I feel.'

Branding someone as a 'racist' at the slightest hint that they may threaten your vested interests because they disagree with over-population and obvious threats to their country (as made clear by certain parties in the ME, for instance), etc, is not racist, in my view. I am not in the least against other 'races' per se.
:cool:

I'm not convinced that coming out of the EU is going to resolve that.

If anywhere could stop illegal immigration, migrants being abused by employers and migrants abusing the system it's Aus but they can't. Aus has a far higher rate of immigration than the UK and similar problems of the sort I suspect you fear.

Aus is presented to the UK as if the White Australia policy was still in place. That's long gone.

ruggedtoast

As far as I see it, and not relating to any particular person on this thread. If you want to vote the UK out of Europe because you are a racist, then just be up front about that.

But don't misappropriate a lot of half truths and misconceptions about the EU to justify voting in a way that no one would choose to vote if they had spent ten minutes furnishing themselves with actual facts.

Generali

ruggedtoast wrote: »

As far as I see it, and not relating to any particular person on this thread. If you want to vote the UK out of Europe because you are a racist, then just be up front about that.

But don't misappropriate a lot of half truths and misconceptions about the EU to justify voting in a way that no one would choose to vote if they had spent ten minutes furnishing themselves with actual facts.

The reason I'm convinced that the UK will stay in the EU is that all the lies and half truths are already out there. The antis really don't have any more cards to play.

The EU as a set of institutions is far from perfect but as Governments go it's pretty cheap (spending is capped at less than 2% of EU GDP I think).

kabayiri

ruggedtoast wrote: »

...
It's hard to keep believing the Tories want us to stay in. Cameron is making every bit as big a mess of this at the outset as he did with Scotland.

Cameron's team won the Scottish independence referendum, in case you had forgotten.

If the NO team win the EU independence referendum, nobody will remember or care how bad the campaign was.

Moby

kabayiri wrote: »

Cameron's team won the Scottish independence referendum, in case you had forgotten.

If the NO team win the EU independence referendum, nobody will remember or care how bad the campaign was.

Actually Cameron did nothing to win the Scottish referendum. He was told to stay away because his interventions were increasing the yes vote. Labour led the 'Better Together' campaign and have just suffered the backlash in the general election because they appeared on the same platform as the tories. A huge error in hindsight on their part.