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Brexit
Comments
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Why would Canada want a free trade agreement with Romania, Bulgaria or Poland? If they could have a deal only with the developed countries they would.As opposed to what? Negotiating 28 separate trade agreements with 28 different countries?
Virtually all of the trade deals are extremely unpopular. Here’s an example for TPP, read the comments - http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trans-pacific-partnership-never-heard-of-it-canadians-tell-pollster-1.3116770?Canada is a "very protective economy"? You mean the Canada that has signed up to NAFTA? The Canada that has just implemented a FTA with Korea, and has about a dozen different ongoing free trade negotiations? [IMG]file:///C:\Users\priceri\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
Also try looking at the restrictions in NAFTA and all the other agreements, including the EU one, for dairy farmers as an example. They have substantial trade barriers to protect local interests, and the same in employment law for Canadians.0 -
By the way do you see free movement of people in any of these deals?0
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Why would Canada want a free trade agreement with Romania, Bulgaria or Poland? If they could have a deal only with the developed countries they would....
Presumably for the same reason that Canada has free trade agreements with Costa Rica and Panama.
...Virtually all of the trade deals are extremely unpopular. Here’s an example for TPP, read the comments - http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trans-pacific-partnership-never-heard-of-it-canadians-tell-pollster-1.3116770?
One could equally well cite to the comments section of say the Daily Mail as 'evidence'....Also try looking at the restrictions in NAFTA and all the other agreements, including the EU one, for dairy farmers as an example. They have substantial trade barriers to protect local interests, and the same in employment law for Canadians.
None of which changes the fact that your claim that Canada has a [FONT="]"very protective economy" is just plain wrong.[/FONT] The ICC Open Markets Index ranks Canada as the 19th most open economy in the world., ahead of the UK which is 29th, and the US at number 38. Whilst the Index of Economic Freedom puts Canada at number 6.
Your claim that Canada made a packet from tariffs was wrong, your claim that FTAs needed to be ratified by Canadian state governments was wrong, your claim that Canada has a very protective economy was wrong. How can one man be so misinformed about one country when we have Google?:)
Please start doing some research and start fact-checking before you post.0 -
We're covering the same ground but to give you another example dairy is exempt in both NAFTA and those FTAs you’ve outlined.
And I noticed you've ignored employment.
They do, as you yourself have outlined. It’s substantial income.Your claim that Canada made a packet from tariffs was wrong
I don’t do insults as you do, but I have lived there for several years and this from a person who believed it’s easier to sign a FTA agreement with 28 countries than one developed one? Really?How can one man be so misinformed about one country when we have Google?[IMG][/img]
[FONT="]
Still waiting on this one.[/FONT]By the way do you see free movement of people in any of these deals?0 -
We're covering the same ground but to give you another example dairy is exempt in both NAFTA and those FTAs you’ve outlined....
Nevertheless you claim that Canada has a "very protective economy" is clearly inaccurate; the ICC Open Markets Index ranks Canada as having a more open economy than the UK....And I noticed you've ignored employment...
I am not under any particular obligation to answer all your questions, you know. But I would gather from your question, that your main objection to EU membership is the principle of freedom of movement.
But if you don't like it, you don't like it....They do, as you yourself have outlined. It’s substantial income....
I have shown that Canada's income from tariffs is only 0.69% of total government revenues and 0.22% of GDP. That is not "substantial income"....I don’t do insults as you do, but I have lived there for several years and...
You "have lived there for several years" and yet your statement that FTAs needed to be ratified by state governments was clearly not true, wasn't it? Just as your statements regarding the level of Canadian tariff income, and the openess of the Canadian economy were similarly inaccurate.
Don't let it bother you. There are plenty of people here who have lived in the UK all their lives, and yet have similarly absurd and inaccurate notions about the UK economy.:)... this from a person who believed it’s easier to sign a FTA agreement with 28 countries than one developed one? Really?
[FONT="]Still waiting on this one.[/FONT]
Eh? You are the who is claiming that it is easier to reach FTAs with 28 countries rather than one overarching authority. I would simply point out that's what you'd need to do to obtain the exact same benefit.
This all stems from your assumption that the UK will have "signed a bunch of free trade deals with non-EU countries" within "the 2 year negotiating period". This seems absurdly optimistic to me. FTAs are quite complicated. The five years spent of negotiating the Canada-EU deal seems quite quick compared to the ten years it took to agree the Australia-China deal.0 -
It isn’t inaccurate, it’s plainly obvious for anyone who’s lived in both countries. I even pointed out a simple example for you with dairy. Or employment. Tariffs and protection are everywhere.Nevertheless you claim that Canada has a "very protective economy" is clearly inaccurate; the ICC Open Markets Index ranks Canada as having a more open economy than the UK.
To give you a further idea here’s an article that explains the price gap between the US and Canada, even with NAFTA - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/tariffs-are-the-hidden-hand-behind-us-canada-price-gap/article8412498/For imports exceeding the allowed limits, there is a 299-per-cent tariff on butter, a 246-per-cent tariff on cheese, and a 241-per-cent tariff on milk. All are plainly prohibitive.
Link for 2014? They are substantial $$, in a country with half the population of the UK.I have shown that Canada's income from tariffs is only 0.69% of total government revenues and 0.22% of GDP. That is not "substantial income".
No I’m not, try reading. Why would Canada or another similar country want a free trade deal with Romania or Bulgaria? They would cherry pick the countries that would benefit them without the EU .Eh? You are the who is claiming that it is easier to reach FTAs with 28 countries rather than one overarching authority. I would simply point out that's what you'd need to do to obtain the exact same benefit.
[FONT="]And clearly, as I said, it would be significantly quicker and less risky to sign a deal with one developed country than 28, many of whom (Czech Republic, Romania) need to ratify it.
[/FONT]0 -
It isn’t inaccurate, it’s plainly obvious for anyone who’s lived in both countries....
I will repeat, the ICO ranks Canada in the Top Twenty most open economy in the world....To give you a further idea here’s an article that explains the price gap between the US and Canada, even with NAFTA - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle8412498/ ......
The NAFTA did not affect the phase-out of tariffs which had been agreed upon under the Canada- U.S. Free Trade Agreement (FTA). The phase-out of FTA tariffs was completed on January 1, 1998. As of that date, virtually all tariffs on Canada- U.S. trade in originating goods were eliminated. Some tariffs remain in place for certain products in Canada's supply-managed sectors (e.g. eggs, dairy and poultry products). In the U.S., tariffs remain in place for certain products such as sugar, dairy, peanut and cotton.
http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/nafta-alena/questions.aspx?lang=en...Link for 2014? They are substantial $$, in a country with half the population of the UK....
I have already supplied the link, but since you missed it first time around, here it is again.:)
http://www.budget.gc.ca/2015/docs/plan/ch5-2-eng.html#Outlook_for_Budgetary_Revenues
Income from Customs Import Duties for 2013-14 was CAD 4.2 billion. That's the equivalent of about CAD 118 per Canadian, or GBP £60 at current exchange rates. What can you get for £60 in Canada? A decent lunch?..No I’m not, try reading. Why would Canada or another similar country want a free trade deal with Romania or Bulgaria? They would cherry pick the countries that would benefit them without the EU .
And as I said before Canada has FTAs with Costa Rica and Panama. And Jordan. And the Honduras, which is really quite small, you know.
And what have you got against Romania? It actually has the 45th biggest economy in the world, just behind Austria, and it's bigger than Greece.:).....[FONT="]And clearly, as I said, it would be significantly quicker and less risky to sign a deal with one developed country than 28, many of whom (Czech Republic, Romania) need to ratify it.[/FONT]
You are simply trying to justify your assumption that the UK could rapidly conclude FTAs with whomsoever it choses within your two-year deadline. Faced with actual examples of FTAs that took considerably longer, you are reduced to insisting that they would be hypothetically quicker for a UK unburdened from the EU.
Wouldn't it be quicker and easier for you to find examples of bilateral FTAs that took less than two years to agree?0 -
Quite, there are still tariffs there for certain industries. You should also note that US citizens can’t work automatically in Canada, and vice versa. Both as I said. Funny that.Some tariffs remain in place for certain products in Canada's supply-managed sectors (e.g. eggs, dairy and poultry products). In the U.S., tariffs remain in place for certain products such as sugar, dairy, peanut and cotton.
A three course mean for two at a nice restaurant.Income from Customs Import Duties for 2013-14 was CAD 4.2 billion. That's the equivalent of about CAD 118 per Canadian, or GBP £60 at current exchange rates. What can you get for £60 in Canada? A decent lunch?
If I multiply that out by population I get roughly £4bn, which is around 5% of the current deficit, nice change.
Indeed, plenty of restrictions on them too JAnd as I said before Canada has FTAs with Costa Rica and Panama. And Jordan. And the Honduras, which is really quite small, you know.
Enough anyway. I haven’t seen anyone provide a coherent argument as to why we should stay in (yet), I’m looking forward to yours.0 -
Quite, there are still tariffs there for certain industries. You should also note that US citizens can’t work automatically in Canada, and vice versa. Both as I said. Funny that......
And the overall position is that Canada has the 19th most open economy in the world....A three course mean for two at a nice restaurant....
Good to know....If I multiply that out by population I get roughly £4bn, which is around 5% of the current deficit, nice change.....
That would be the exact point that I was making. The amount involved is indeed "nice change", but not as you originally claimed a "packet"....Indeed, plenty of restrictions on them too J .
I have no doubt that there. And yet Canada still thinks it is worthwhile having a FTA with a little country like Honduras, and thus it might well think it worthwhile to have one with a bigger country like Romania.....Enough anyway. I haven’t seen anyone provide a coherent argument as to why we should stay in (yet), I’m looking forward to yours.
You misunderstand. I don't particularly like the EU. I'd happily vote to exit the damn thing if I thought that someone had a vaguely coherent idea as to what to do afterwards. Sadly, beyond a bit of flag-waving to the tune of Land of Hope and Glory, I have yet to see anyone to do so.0 -
I used to enjoy living in a place where I could just go to one of a very large number of countries and live there if I wanted. Get a job or just hang out for a bit with no restrictions to speak of. Qualitatively that's fantastic.
No visa, no messing about. Can bring home what I want from the supermarkets (no having to dump most imported food at the border like in Aus).
That's before you go into the financial benefits of living in the largest single market in the world.0
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