Discussion time is dead. Please Discuss.

j.e.j.

Gingernutty wrote: »

I rarely go to Discussion Time.

Threads are started by tub thumpers, axe grinders and out and out nutters (Meftep, anyone?) and degenerate into insults and nit picking very quickly.

There's no point posting anyway.

You put it very well!

It's interesting to hear/read that others are also finding issues with the board, - it's not just a few lily-livered posters taking offence too easily.

I think I'm going to stop posting there. Like others, I've got better things to do than spend time reading the blatherings of the half-dozen or so highly unpleasant people who seem eager to use the forum as a sounding board for their views.


It's good that MSE are aware of the problem. They can only act on reports, though, and the forum users concerned couldn't care less if they get warnings or get banned, - they just see it as an occupational hazard, and simply re-join the forum under a new name and do the same all over again. Sad people, really.

BarryBlue

I have concluded that some people are simply too precious about the views of others. I have often, for instance, expressed anti-royalist and atheist views which are sincerely held. However, some of those with pro-royal and religious views simply cannot accept that people may hold contrary views and seem to froth at the mouth at such dissent.

This forum has a very useful "Ignore" feature which perhaps people should be using. Some time ago I received an appalling PM from another poster who objected to something I had posted on a thread, telling me not to do so. It was quite racist too so I simply put her on Ignore. It has had the desired effect as I no longer get to read whatever nonsense she chooses to post about me or anything else.

The fact is that this is an internet forum and there are many others worse than this for being abused. Maybe some people just aren't cut out for debate forums, although most serious debate has been replaced on MSE by political tub-thumping in recent weeks. It's the worst I can recall in my 8 years here.

j.e.j.

BarryBlue wrote: »

The fact is that this is an internet forum and there are many others worse than this for being abused. Maybe some people just aren't cut out for debate forums, although most serious debate has been replaced on MSE by political tub-thumping in recent weeks. It's the worst I can recall in my 8 years here.

It does seem to have got particularly bad recently.

I think it really doesn't matter what views people hold, as long as they can express them without name-calling, ganging-up or generally being unpleasant. It's also a bit rude to trash a thread which is NOT on the discussion board and was expressly intended for positive posts on the royal baby. (Not accusing anyone here, - there were a few people who did it)

As for the ignore function, it's not great on MSE. If someone else quotes that person (which they usually do if it's a controversial statement they've made) then you can still read every word of what they've said.

Yes I'm sure there are much worse forums out there, btw. In fact I know there are!

seven-day-weekend

I have no objection to people holding another position to mine on anything, they have a perfect right to do so. I would just like them to be polite and respectful about it, as I'm sure they would (I hope) if they were talking to my face.

Exile_geordie

The fact that it is called 'discussion' really needs to be changed due to certain posters who absolve themselves of actually discussing anything and just use smileys and evade questions when put to them for pages on end. Or they need to be culled as it is not any form of discussion.


Same as the politics threads get curated by the paid, involve many graphs(we hope) and then pages of 'But Labour did' But the 'Tories are nasty' and so on and so on. Every.Single. Blo0dy. Time.

BarryBlue

j.e.j. wrote: »

It does seem to have got particularly bad recently.

I think it really doesn't matter what views people hold, as long as they can express them without name-calling, ganging-up or generally being unpleasant. It's also a bit rude to trash a thread which is NOT on the discussion board and was expressly intended for positive posts on the royal baby. (Not accusing anyone here, - there were a few people who did it)

As for the ignore function, it's not great on MSE. If someone else quotes that person (which they usually do if it's a controversial statement they've made) then you can still read every word of what they've said.

Yes I'm sure there are much worse forums out there, btw. In fact I know there are!

Insulting other posters is specifically against the rules. I've had all sorts over the last few days for my opinions but as I've said before it's like water off a duck's back. They do seem to have disappeared though. Not are as thick skinned as me, it seems.


I have to say that people are free to express contrary opinions even on threads like you mention. Nobody owns a thread. As I said before, I was told by someone by PM not to post on a subject and they then posted on that same subject. Some people - you couldn't make it up!


I only have 3 on my ignore list, one of whom is now PPR. It works fine as a reminder that you wish not to engage anyone even if they are quoted. It also prevents them from sending you PMs which was the point in the case I mentioned. I am willing to engage in discussion with anyone but I do object to people telling me not to post opposing views to them.


I hope after the election furore has died down the place will get a bit better. I'm away on holiday for the inevitable recriminations from the political posters so here's hoping.:)

Exile_geordie wrote: »

The fact that it is called 'discussion' really needs to be changed due to certain posters who absolve themselves of actually discussing anything and just use smileys and evade questions when put to them for pages on end. Or they need to be culled as it is not any form of discussion.

Same as the politics threads get curated by the paid, involve many graphs(we hope) and then pages of 'But Labour did' But the 'Tories are nasty' and so on and so on. Every.Single. Blo0dy. Time.

Do you really think anyone is being paid to post propaganda on this forum? If they are, someone is wasting their money!


The problem with what you suggest is that one person's rant is another person's discussion. Not everyone is as literate and coherent as we are! Unfair to censor on the basis if disagreeing with someone. What tends to happen is that certain views are seen as disruptive due to block reporting and get removed pronto. Try posting perfectly reasoned atheist arguments and you'll see what I mean.

Mandelbrot

MSE_Megan wrote: »

We've noticed some really nasty stuff in DT recently though and we're doing our best to get rid of it as soon as it's reported to us.

And what will actually be getting reported?
The original offensive baiting stuff, or the infuriated responses of people driven to distraction.
A system based on 'user reporting' just ain't gonna work.
Most people simply do not go around 'reporting' other posters.
But a small subset do it on a regular basis.

I have a long list to get through this morning, so that's what I'll be doing today!

Hopefully, you will read enough to see the full picture.
But please don't go and delete a whole thread when all that's (arguably) needed is to delete a few posts or some text.
Deleting whole threads (when most posts in it are fine) annoys lots of forum members.

Please, please keep reporting this stuff when you see it. It really helps us to get rid of the less than savoury stuff, and gives you guys space to have actual discussions, which is what the board was designed for!

No. I (for one) will simply ignore most of the 'less than savoury' stuff. I have a thick skin, and can not be goaded.
Do you really want to have one lot of users continually reporting another lot, and vice versa?
If you want to moderate the boards, then set up a proper moderator system.
Having good discussions often means spending time crafting long responses, and there is little point in doing that if a big hand is going to come down at some point and remove the whole thread ... or move it to this 'thread graveyard'.

seven-day-weekend

[QUOTE=BarryBlue;68331525

...........................

The problem with what you suggest is that one person's rant is another person's discussion. Not everyone is as literate and coherent as we are! Unfair to censor on the basis if disagreeing with someone. What tends to happen is that certain views are seen as disruptive due to block reporting and get removed pronto. Try posting perfectly reasoned atheist arguments and you'll see what I mean.[/QUOTE]

I will say straight away that I have never reported you, or anyone else, for posting their point of view, apart from one person years ago who insulted me personally.

I think the reason the atheist posts get reported (if they do) is that some posters can be very scathing, rude and insulting about a person's faith or their God, and sometimes about the person themselves. If this was about race, or gender, it would be unacceptable. People get hurt and upset by it.

Having said that, whilst I have asked people to speak in respectful language about my faith, even whilst disagreeing with it, (there is no need for terms like Sky Fairy or Flying Spaghetti Monster, nor to insult my intellect) I would not report them for not doing so. I'd just leave the thread.

BarryBlue

Mandelbrot wrote: »

And what will actually be getting reported?
The original offensive baiting stuff, or the infuriated responses of people driven to distraction.
A system based on 'user reporting' just ain't gonna work.
Most people simply do not go around 'reporting' other posters.
But a small subset do it on a regular basis.

Hopefully, you will read enough to see the full picture.
But please don't go and delete a whole thread when all that's (arguably) needed is to delete a few posts or some text.
Deleting whole threads (when most posts in it are fine) annoys lots of forum members.

No. I (for one) will simply ignore most of the 'less than savoury' stuff. I have a thick skin, and can not be goaded.
Do you really want to have one lot of users continually reporting another lot, and vice versa?
If you want to moderate the boards, then set up a proper moderator system.
Having good discussions often means spending time crafting long responses, and there is little point in doing that if a big hand is going to come down at some point and remove the whole thread ... or move it to this 'thread graveyard'.

I would agree that a proper system of moderation would work if it is even-handed. All views are just as valid as others. What you regard as "offensive baiting" may be just someone expressing an opinion contrary to yours. Likewise, "infuriated posts by people driven to distraction" are just as likely to be offensive, or even more so if recent events are any guide.


I take your point but hope that you are not suggesting posts are edited or removed simply because you disagree with them. We have had many cases where posts have been removed even though they don't contravene forum rules, just that some folks don't like them.

j.e.j.

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I think the reason the atheist posts get reported (if they do) is that some posters can be very scathing, rude and insulting about a person's faith or their God, and sometimes about the person themselves. If this was about race, or gender, it would be unacceptable. People get hurt and upset by it.

Having said that, whilst I have asked people to speak in respectful language about my faith, even whilst disagreeing with it, (there is no need for terms like Sky Fairy or Flying Spaghetti Monster, nor to insult my intellect) I would not report them for not doing so. I'd just leave the thread.

I agree, there is nothing like a religion thread to draw out the trouble-makers and the nasty ones. I am not particularly religious myself, but I wouldn't dream of leaping on a thread and calling a Christian (or Muslim or Jew) names just because they follow a faith.



But getting onto the subject of the site being moderated, I am not sure how that would work? I have never been on a site that is moderated, - do the mods read every post and approve it before allowing it to be posted, or are they somehow responsible for what people are posting..

This site is not moderated and as far as I understand it the reason is that it is too large and would take too many employees to do so. Also I think there are legal reasons why it is better to leave it (officially) unmoderated.