why are used trailers so expensive?

Iceweasel

MX5huggy wrote: »

There seems to be some people with some good trailer leagal knowledge around so...

With a BMW X1 23dXdrive (oldest incarnation if there are newer) and this trailer model 500-0110 http://www.brianjames.co.uk/pdf/CargoShifterweb2014singlepages_2.pdf
Can a post 97 license holder drive it? If so how much weight can they add to the trailer. For an old licence what is allowed?

First you need to check the plate on the driver's door post where you will find 4 weights in Kg

The top one is the vehicle maximum weight.

Below that is the max train weight.

Then there is the figure 1 followed by a weight in KG - that is the max for the front axle.

Then there is the number 2 followed by the max weight for the rear axle.

By subtracting the first (top) number from the second you get the max permissable towing weight.

For the X1 that would be somewhere around 1800Kg

I imagine that the X1 weighs around 2 tonne fully loaded - the top number is the exact amount.

So for a post 97 driver that smallest trailer on the brian james link you gave has a plated weight of 1300Kg would be well under their 3.5 tonne limit.

The next size at 1500Kg would likely make the total a little over the 3.5 tonne so would not be allowed even when the trailer was empty. They would need to sit a B+E test.

For a pre 97 licence holder the next up size with a plated weight of 2.6 tonnes could be towed as long as it was not loaded to more than the 1800kg which is the max for the X1.

If you check using the exact numbers listed on the driver's post you can confirm this.

RS2000.

Iceweasel wrote: »

First you need to check the plate on the driver's door post where you will find 4 weights in Kg

The top one is the vehicle maximum weight.

Below that is the max train weight.

Then there is the figure 1 followed by a weight in KG - that is the max for the front axle.

Then there is the number 2 followed by the max weight for the rear axle.

By subtracting the first (top) number from the second you get the max permissable towing weight.

For the X1 that would be somewhere around 1800Kg

I imagine that the X1 weighs around 2 tonne fully loaded - the top number is the exact amount.

So for a post 97 driver that smallest trailer on the brian james link you gave has a plated weight of 1300Kg would be well under their 3.5 tonne limit.

The next size at 1500Kg would likely make the total a little over the 3.5 tonne so would not be allowed even when the trailer was empty. They would need to sit a B+E test.

For a pre 97 licence holder the next up size with a plated weight of 2.6 tonnes could be towed as long as it was not loaded to more than the 1800kg which is the max for the X1.

If you check using the exact numbers listed on the driver's post you can confirm this.

It usually runs

Front
Rear
Gross
Train

On the plate.

Iceweasel

RS2000. wrote: »

It usually runs

Front
Rear
Gross
Train

On the plate.

Not on all makes - and not on BMWs - not the ones I've had anyway.



But it should be obvious as the axles are always marked 1 and 2.

And here's a Ford one showing the same order I listed:



Max Vehicle
Max Train
Max Front Axle (1)
Max Rear Axle (2)

forgotmyname

You need to beware the max weights. As on the Ford one above, It shows 1200kg as the max tow. But the gross train weight is only 800kg more than the gross kerbweight.

So to tow 1200kg the car cannot be loaded to its max.

Herzlos

The numbers shown on the door pillar tell you what the car is capable of, and don't quite fit with the license. The gross train weight (GTW) - the gross vehicle weight (GVW) tell you the maximum trailer weight.

Thethe heaviest braked trailer you can tow on a post '97 license is therefore the lower of:
3500kg - the GVW or
GTV - GVW.

MX5huggy wrote: »

There seems to be some people with some good trailer leagal knowledge around so...

With a BMW X1 23dXdrive (oldest incarnation if there are newer) and this trailer model 500-0110 http://www.brianjames.co.uk/pdf/CargoShifterweb2014singlepages_2.pdf
Can a post 97 license holder drive it? If so how much weight can they add to the trailer. For an old licence what is allowed?

The Brian James site seems to be unavailable just now so I don't know anything about the trailer, but the parkers site (http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/bmw/x1/estate-2009/48675/) implies the car can handle 750kg/2000kg un/braked. It weighs 1585kg (presumably empty, so it's max weight will be nearer 2000kg, we'll assume 2200kg but it'll be on the plate).

That means you're looking at a trailer that is rated for 1300kg at the most (Car max + trailer max must be under 3500kg). That's a plate value of 1300kg (MAM) on the trailer - doesn't matter what it actually weighs. You can get the supplier to down-rate the plate to fit your car for a small fee, but then you're restricted to that weight (i.e. if it's really good for 2000kg but you change the plate to say it's only used for 1300kg, you'd have to treat it as a 1300kg trailer even if someone else is allowed to tow more).

Herzlos

forgotmyname wrote: »

You need to beware the max weights. As on the Ford one above, It shows 1200kg as the max tow. But the gross train weight is only 800kg more than the gross kerbweight.

So to tow 1200kg the car cannot be loaded to its max.

And that only applies for pre-97 or B+E drivers. for everyone else the car and trailer are assumed to be full, so in reality you're restricted to an 800kg trailer. But yeah, for the pre-97 and B+E's, any weight added to the car has to come off the trailer.

forgotmyname

Yeah, Mines the same but not to that degree, Still getting on for 300kg though.

But my gross train weight is over 3500kg also.

Iceweasel

So many people just do not understand the importance of reading those door-post labels.

Because I have a large trailer, 680Kg empty but plated at 2 tonnes, I often get friends and relatives asking to borrow it for various reasons.

Often they are initially puzzled as to why I ask questions about the vehicle they are going to tow it with and what categories they have on their licence.

Some are prepared to 'chance it' as it usually only a few miles from B&Q or something like that they want to do.

Rather than allow them to get in trouble - and my trailer possibly be impounded - I usually offer to go with them towing the trailer with my own vehicle.

An unbraked trailer with a plated weight of 750Kg can often put the car and trailer combination over the 3.5 tonne limit of a small car - that's a surprised to many post 97 drivers.

The other thing to watch is that the UK rules - and the exemptions we obtained from the EU to continue old entitlements -often leads to hassle.

One of the saddest things that I have seen more than once is the sight of a minibus full of young people towing a trailer full of camping kit, or perhaps towing a loaded with canoes, being turned back at Calais for being overweight or the driver not having the correct licence.

Holiday trip ruined before it starts.

The other problem they encounter is not having a tachograph - but that for discussion in another thread.

Caravanners on the other hand tend to be pretty clued up as to what the rules are both here and elsewhere.

AdrianC

Iceweasel wrote: »

An unbraked trailer with a plated weight of 750Kg can often put the car and trailer combination over the 3.5 tonne limit of a small car - that's a surprised to many post 97 drivers.

It might very easily put them over the unbraked towing limit of their car, but it won't put them over 3.5t, unless the tow car GVW is 2750kg+. And that'd be a SERIOUSLY hefty small car.

The other thing to watch is that the UK rules - and the exemptions we obtained from the EU to continue old entitlements -often leads to hassle.

One of the saddest things that I have seen more than once is the sight of a minibus full of young people towing a trailer full of camping kit, or perhaps towing a loaded with canoes, being turned back at Calais for being overweight or the driver not having the correct licence.

They shouldn't be. Their UK licence's entitlement would still apply. Overweight would apply in the UK just as much as on the continent.

Herzlos

Iceweasel wrote: »

An unbraked trailer with a plated weight of 750Kg can often put the car and trailer combination over the 3.5 tonne limit of a small car - that's a surprised to many post 97 drivers.

Post-97 can go over the 3.5T limit with an unbraked trailer in the UK, up to 4.25T (3.5T GVW car + 0.75T trailer). Post-14 (?) are restricted to 3.5T total..

Most small cars are over the vehicle/license limits with a 750kg trailer anyway though so it's somewhat moot.


That said, it costs about £400-500 to sit the B+E test (with a few lessons) which is well worth doing if you're going to be using it a lot. It gets rid of a lot of the legal headache too. Is the GTV less than the plate says? You're good.

I've never figured out how you can get to the 8250kg B+E allowance though, since the max vehicle weight is 3500kg and max trailer weight is also 3500kg (so 7000kg total).