Rights to returning a smartphone bought online

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As Anotheruser said, there will have been a seal on the box. Once this is broken, they cannot sell it as new.

grumbler

macman wrote: »

It's now second hand and he value is reduced accordingly, they cannot sell it as new.

Firstly, it's 'opened box', not 'second hand'. Big difference.
Secondly, this is the price retailers knowingly pay for selling remotely. At the same time they save money on other things like salaries, rent, bills etc.

macman

The OP switched it on. At what point does an 'opened box' become 'second hand'? After being switched on for ten minutes, 24 hours after you open it? Even if it's unmarked and flawless it's still no longer 'new'.

grumbler

macman wrote: »

The OP switched it on. At what point does an 'opened box' become 'second hand'?

Absolutely. A simple switching on doesn't make it 'second hand'.

There are different grades: grade B, ex-display, refurbished, factory graded etc., but according to you all are "second hand" that normally means having been used for a long time and with visible signs of this usage.

If I start a car engine in a garage, does the car become 'second hand'?

SeduLOUs

grumbler wrote: »

Absolutely. A simple switching on doesn't make it 'second hand'.

There are different grades: grade B, ex-display, refurbished, factory graded etc., but according to you all are "second hand" that normally means having been used for a long time and with visible signs of this usage.

I'm using the term 'second-hand' to mean anything other than new. I know it covers many grades of usage and I know that switching a phone on for two minutes isn't the same as wear and tear on a two year old heavily used phone.

But regardless of what 'grade' you might call it, anything other than brand new and sealed would be totally inappropriate to send to a customer who has paid for new.

If it's been opened and switched on the retailer has no idea what you've done to it. It will have to go through full testing as it could now be water damaged, or might have been opened up or attempted to have software installed that has voided the warranty. It absolutely cannot be sold to another customer as a new product.

grumbler

SeduLOUs wrote: »

But regardless of what 'grade' you might call it, anything other than brand new and sealed would be totally inappropriate to send to a customer who has paid for new.

Yes. As I said, it has to be sold as 'opened box', cheaper than new.
Let's say every 10th phone gets returned on average. This is the calculated loss/expense that any remote seller has to accept. The law allows customers to inspect the item. This is impossible without opening the box.

If it's been opened and switched on the retailer has no idea what you've done to it.

The retailer can check the external condition (stickers, scratches) and do a factory reset if needed.

It will have to go through full testing as it could now be water damaged, or might have been opened up or attempted to have software installed that has voided the warranty. It absolutely cannot be sold to another customer as a new product.

Why are you saying all this? As I said, 'Which?', that I quoted, are not the last instance. If you are more expert than they are, prove them wrong with some facts, not emotions.

SeduLOUs

grumbler wrote: »

Why are you saying all this? As I said, 'Which?', that I quoted, are not the last instance. If you are more expert than they, prove them wrong with some facts, not emotions.

I'm just pointing out that if the OP returns the phone Very have no idea about it's real condition. OP says he only switched it on for 2 minutes, but for all anyone knows it could have been dropped in the toilet.

They've said they would refund if it 'passes' but none of us really know what that means. I suspect it won't pass due to broken box seals and the phone having been turned on so they won't know what he's done to it.

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

grumbler

Because, according to 'Which?', the law says so.
If they are wrong, prove them wrong.

If Very want to make a deduction they have to prove that the usage was more extensive than it would be if the customer was assessing the item in a shop.

The link is http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations

SeduLOUs

grumbler wrote: »

Because, according to 'Which?', the law says so.
If they are wrong, prove them wrong.

"The extent to which a customer can handle the goods is the same as it would be if you were assessing them in a shop."

And how are Very to know whether the OP handled the phone in the same way he would if he were assessing it in a shop without fully testing it? Just because OP says he only turned it on for 2 minutes doesn't make it true.

grumbler

SeduLOUs wrote: »

...And how are Very to know whether the OP handled the phone in the same way he would if he were assessing it in a shop without fully testing it?

That's what the law exists for.
If they want to make a deduction, they have to prove.
It's their problem how they do this, not the customer's.

If they can't comply with the law or find it to expensive to comply, they have to stop selling online and start renting high street shops instead.