Second hand car rights with dodgy invoice

burlington6

chrisyboy wrote: »

I beg to differ, I brought an old 1995 Golf 1.9 TDI, she had 200k on the clock, I run it to 300k over the course of 3 years, not a single thing went wrong with it

Where did you bring it?

Brooker_Dave

AdrianC wrote: »

Head gaskets don't "simply rot away".

They do, but most cars are scrap before it happens.

Sam_Fallow

chrisyboy wrote: »

I beg to differ, I brought an old 1995 Golf 1.9 TDI, she had 200k on the clock, I run it to 300k over the course of 3 years, not a single thing went wrong with it

burlington6 wrote: »

Where did you bring it?

Don't you two know how to use the correct tense for a verb. The correct form should read...

'Where did you bruy it?'

Retrogamer

AdrianC wrote: »

Head gaskets don't "simply rot away".

They can do if you neglect to change the coolant on certain cars.
IIRC the anti corrosive properties wear off and it turns slightly acidic

barrab

Hi All.

Sorry for the delayed reply and thank you for the varied but valid mix of responses.

Situation is as follows:

Called the dealer yesterday a couple of times before 11am yesterday. No answer.

Called again at 12:05 and a half hour conversation ensued.

I argued that the car had developed a head gasket fault which means that the car was not sold fit for purpose. Pointed to the SOGA Section 14, part 2-2C and that the car was none of reasonably : free from minor defects, safe or durable. Told him the car had overheated on the motorway resulting in a necessary recovery and, that a garage had subsequently chemically tested the block and deduced a head gasket failure. I said that I wasn't necessarily accusing him of selling the car with a head gasket failure but one way or another the car was sold with an underlying fault which would have caused its onset so very very quickly.

He argued that he couldn't have possibly known the head gasket was going to fail, questioned the mechanical ability of my mechanic and suggested the car had been driven erratically to lead to the fault. He also added that this is precisely why he writes "sold as seen (trailered away)" on his invoices to avoid this kind of problem with old cars.

I pointed out it wasn't unreasonable to suggest that he should have checked the cooling system before selling it to ensure that the car was fit for the purpose of : driving. Said that the mechanic could do further tests to find out what the problem was with the cooling system but at extra expense and finally he was welcome to review the ECU to see that the car has never been driven above 3000rpm for the time that I have owned it (I became slightly obsessed with the fuel consumption gauge in the middle of the speedo). Finally told him he could write "sold as a doughnut" on his invoice if he wanted to; it has no bearing whatsoever on the basic statutory rights provided for in the SOGA.

After 20 minutes of bickering about the fairness of my claim he asked me what I actually wanted. Given the messages that have been posted here, I said I would be happy to take half of my money and give the car back - it seemed like a fair deal for a harsh lesson in buying near death motors and some return on a bad investment. I said I wasn't expecting miracles but just 7 days after buying the car for a fault to develop was absolutely ridiculous. He said he would have to think about it and that I should give him a call back today around tea-time.

Called him back at 6:30pm and he told me to call him back at around 12 tomorrow as it was outside of office hours. Pointed out that he had asked him to call me at tea-time but wanting to keep things amicable I agreed and said I would speak to him then. I get the feeling if I had been calling about buying a car he would have been more open to listening and is instead stalling for time.

Two options then. If he does not agree to what seems to me like a perfectly reasonable exchange given the unsuitable quality of the vehicle then I will put the issue to trading standards to reclaim the full cost of the vehicle, the recovery costs and the cost of getting the fault diagnosed or; I can let the matter go and pass the car to ebay.

Tilt

So he writes "sold as seen on the invoices to avoid this kind of problem with old cars" but paints a different picture when advertising them?

Sold as seen is an unfair term and is no legal defence should you take the matter further.

I think you have given him more than a fair opportunity to sort it out. But if he fails to do anything, I doubt if Trading Standards will fight your corner... they normally only take action following a series of complaints.

My advice would be to write to him detailing the problem and inviting him to inspect the car (he is entitled to under SOGA) and then provide his intentions. Give him 7 days to respond and get proof of postage. If nothing happens after that, then you need to send a letter before action (LBA) before commencing a claim via the small claims process.

barrab

Tilt wrote: »

My advice would be to write to him detailing the problem and inviting him to inspect the car (he is entitled to under SOGA) and then provide his intentions. Give him 7 days to respond and get proof of postage. If nothing happens after that, then you need to send a letter before action (LBA) before commencing a claim via the small claims process.

Thanks - I will see what he says tomorrow and then proceed from there.

Given the condition of the head-gasket (the car is not drive-able) would it be fair to ask him to view the car at my premises or to take the car away for inspection?

barrab

AdrianC wrote: »

I don't think SOGA rights vary depending on the presence in the car of a grandmother, either.

If only...

RS2000.

I think you should have asked for a full refund.

Tilt

barrab wrote: »

Thanks - I will see what he says tomorrow and then proceed from there.

Given the condition of the head-gasket (the car is not drive-able) would it be fair to ask him to view the car at my premises or to take the car away for inspection?

TBH I think you would be better dong things in writing now BUT there is no harm having one last try. I wouldn't repeat your offer, I would just ask if he has reached a decision. If you are happy with him accepting your offer, all well and good.

But if he fobs you off again, I would do as I suggested BUT I would not put your offer in writing. If you are prepared to take matters further, then you may as well formally reject the car and go for a full refund.