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Second hand car rights with dodgy invoice

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Comments

  • Tilt
    Tilt Posts: 3,599 Forumite
    xHannahx wrote: »
    I've seen a lot where a dealer writes sold as scrap on sub £500 cars.
    They can clearly see you coming as a nice target to rip off....£500 for a head gasket repair on such a small engine is a rip off in its own right. Look to pay £300 tops.
    Citizens advise website says the car should be of a condition matched to its age and mileage. It could be argued that a 15 year old high miler BMW could be expected to have coolant system issues

    You can't retail a car for spares and repair or "sold for scrap" when you have described it in the way this seller has. The age of the car is irrelevant as it was obviously not fit for the purpose.
    PLEASE NOTE
    My advice should be used as guidance only. You should always obtain face to face professional advice before taking any action.
  • loskie
    loskie Posts: 1,761 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts
    It's not really high mileage though is it? Could it have been clocked too?
  • usefulmale
    usefulmale Posts: 2,627 Forumite
    barrab wrote: »
    I managed to get the original advert text from autotrader:

    BLUE, SERVICE BOOK STAMPED @14K...29K...43K...59K...68K...85K...102K...118K.. .124K...132K...155K.., Next MOT due 15/10/2015, Full service history, Good bodywork, Interior - Good Condition, Tyre condition Good, Air-Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, Electric Windows, In Car Entertainment. 5 seats, CALLS AFTER 6 PM,
    £795 ono

    They have said that they will be able to procure the full advert only if I submit a claim through trading standards but for the time being this is hopefully enough to show that the car was advertised as being in satisfactory condition.

    Thank you.

    The car WAS in satisfactory condition when you bought it. The ad offers no indication of any warranty or guarantee. You bought a cheap, 15 year-old, high mileage car and now seem to expect the same level of service as if you bought it brand new.

    Save the money you will waste chasing this and put it towards a newer car that may have the guarantees / warranty you seek.
  • arcon5
    arcon5 Posts: 14,099 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Tilt wrote: »
    You can't retail a car for spares and repair or "sold for scrap" when you have described it in the way this seller has. The age of the car is irrelevant as it was obviously not fit for the purpose.

    Yes you can!
    It's history etc is in fact very useful for anybody looking for cars to fix back up, makes assessing it's value post-repair a lot easier.

    Op potentially has rights here imo - however, if the dealer turns round with some story the fact he wrote trailered away could in fact go towards substantiating some dodgy claims. The sold as seen part isn't necessarily anything to worry about on its own.
  • arcon5
    arcon5 Posts: 14,099 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    loskie wrote: »
    It's not really high mileage though is it? Could it have been clocked too?

    Hmm, I think most would consider mileage over 150k to be "high mileage"
  • macman
    macman Posts: 53,129 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 14 April 2015 at 8:57AM
    [B]BLUE, SERVICE BOOK STAMPED @14K...29K...43K...59K...68K...85K...102K...118K.. .124K...132K...155K.., Next MOT due 15/10/2015, Full service history, Good bodywork, Interior - Good Condition, Tyre condition Good, Air-Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, Electric Windows, In Car Entertainment. 5 seats, CALLS AFTER 6 PM,
    £795 ono
    [/B]

    The ad makes no reference to the mechanical condition whatsoever. It purely relates to the condition of the tyres, bodywork and interior. 'FSH' is a statement of fact, not a guarantee of mechanical soundness. Did you bother to ask the dealer if he was aware of any known faults?
    No free lunch, and no free laptop ;)
  • Brooker_Dave
    Brooker_Dave Posts: 5,196 Forumite
    It's a 15 year old car with 155k up it, a headgasket is a wear part, so bit pointless demanding a free repair.

    I'd have though £200 all in would be a more reasonable sum for getting it repaired assuming it is just the gasket.

    You can't really expect a new car warranty on a cheap banger.
    "Love you Dave Brooker! x"

    "i sent a letter headded sales of god act 1979"
  • wiltsguy_2
    wiltsguy_2 Posts: 536 Forumite
    if it was a private sell it would be a case of suck it up and chalk it down to experience, unless you can prove the seller knew it was faulty.

    As it is from a garage you may have a case to fight, but my best advice would be to go and see the dealer face to face and be polite, the garage isnt going to want the bad press from this for only £650, and E36 BMW even with a blown head gasket would fetch at least £300 on ebay/scrap for parts and they will know this, making there loss minimal, i expect they didnt pay a lot for the car anyway.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on
    Plan: [STRIKE]Finish off paying the remainder of my debts[/STRIKE].
    [STRIKE]Save up for that rainy day[/STRIKE].
    Start enjoying a stress debt free life..:beer:...now enjoying. thanks to all on MSE
  • colino
    colino Posts: 5,059 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    The reality is it has got beyond the 120,000 miles bogey figure and it doesn't need a head gasket. It needs a head gasket, radiator, waterpump and thermostat just to get it up and running. Whether there will also be the tinkle of valvegear after age and heat have got to it is also to be factored in.
    This is a return to sender or ebay if for the drift crowd.
  • AdrianC
    AdrianC Posts: 42,189 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    barrab wrote: »
    I recently purchased a 2000 BMW 316i SE on the 3rd April 2015 from a dealership near me. The car was an extremely smooth drive, couldn't see any faults whatsoever on inspection and with the addition of a full service history record seemed like a steal at £650.

    Original Autotrader advert text:

    BLUE, SERVICE BOOK STAMPED @14K...29K...43K...59K...68K...85K...102K...118K...124K...132K...155K.., Next MOT due 15/10/2015, Full service history, Good bodywork, Interior - Good Condition, Tyre condition Good, Air-Conditioning, Alarm, Alloy Wheels, Electric Windows, In Car Entertainment. 5 seats, CALLS AFTER 6 PM,
    £795 ono

    So absolutely no mention of mechanical condition in the advert, quite carefully worded to be deliberately so.

    I presume there's more to this "full" service history than those stamps in the service book, because there's some reasonably sizeable gaps in there - 23k before the most recent service, but a couple of 17/18k.

    If you do pursue it legally and it does ever get to court, then the careful lack of mention of mechanical condition in the ad, together with the near 20% discount from asking price, and the wording of the receipt will support the dealer's undoubted defence that "you were fully aware of the head gasket problem". You will be asked why you accepted a receipt with that wording if you weren't trailering the car away - "I didn't notice..." will sound a bit thin.

    Given the price, age, mileage, I think cutting your losses and learning a lesson is your best way forward here. Shove it on eBay with faults declared and plenty of good pictures, if it is so tidy, and you should get a reasonable chunk of your money back.

    Wiltsguy - 2000 will be an E46, not an E36.
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