Second hand car rights with dodgy invoice

AdrianC

Tilt wrote: »

No you can't!

Oh, yes, you can.

You can only sell a "spares or repair" to another trader because it would be likely illegal for it to be driven away.

You can sell it to whoever the hell wants to buy it, so long as you're upfront about the condition, and don't allow it to be driven away if it's not roadworthy.

In this case the OP drove the car away which the seller should not of allowed if it was not fit for the purpose.

We're very likely to have the OP saying not, and the dealer saying so - with documentary evidence supporting the dealer's position.

Which ever way you paint it, the seller has attempted to remove the consumer's rights which breaches the SOGA.

SOGA rights are tempered with expectations surrounding the age and condition of the vehicle. This is a 15yo, high mileage, near-scrap-value vehicle with no comment in the ad on mechanical condition, which was in the OP's ownership for a week before revealing a problem. Expectations are... low.

I don't think SOGA rights vary depending on the presence in the car of a grandmother, either.

wiltsguy_2

if the seller put on the receipt that the car is to be trailored away, is this his way of trying to cover his own backside by stating that it was unsafe to drive away?? hopefully the OP will be back on and say how they got on today

BeenThroughItAll

wiltsguy wrote: »

hopefully the OP will be back on and say how they got on today

Bearing in mind that the whole thread isn't composed of people telling him the dealer should give him a massive wedge of compo plus his refund, I hold out little hope...

Tilt

First you say;

AdrianC wrote: »

Oh, yes, you can.

Then you say;

AdrianC wrote: »

You can sell it to whoever the hell wants to buy it, so long as you're upfront about the condition, and don't allow it to be driven away if it's not roadworthy.

which is what I was saying!!! You cannot retail a car to a member of the public and allow him to drive it away if it is only for "spares or repair"!

AdrianC wrote: »

We're very likely to have the OP saying not, and the dealer saying so - with documentary evidence supporting the dealer's position.

You disn't see the Ad on Auto Trader then? No mention of "spares or repair". On the contrary in fact it was clearly being described as being in "good condition".

AdrianC wrote: »

SOGA rights are tempered with expectations surrounding the age and condition of the vehicle. This is a 15yo, high mileage, near-scrap-value vehicle with no comment in the ad on mechanical condition, which was in the OP's ownership for a week before revealing a problem. Expectations are... low.

The wording "good condition" and the listed service history I think suffices to impress that the car's mechanical condition is satisfactory. Don't forget the consumer would be treated as inexperienced by a court who was swayed by the advert. I think the OP has a case providing he can produce a hard copy of the original advert as evidence. What is written on the sale invoice then becomes irrelevant.

Tilt

wiltsguy wrote: »

if the seller put on the receipt that the car is to be trailored away, is this his way of trying to cover his own backside by stating that it was unsafe to drive away?? hopefully the OP will be back on and say how they got on today

Probably. But then he should'nt sell it to someone who is then going to drive it away. If he does, the wording on the invoice becomes irrelevant and potentially illegal.

Tilt

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

Bearing in mind that the whole thread isn't composed of people telling him the dealer should give him a massive wedge of compo plus his refund, I hold out little hope...

As far as I see it, atm a repair could be offered but either way I think the dealer has a responsibility here.

AdrianC

Tilt wrote: »

You cannot retail a car to a member of the public and allow him to drive it away if it is only for "spares or repair"!

You miss my point completely. Whether the buyer is trade or public is irrelevant. You stated that it was illegal to sell to a private buyer, only a trader. Wrong.

You disn't see the Ad on Auto Trader then? No mention of "spares or repair". On the contrary in fact it was clearly being described as being in "good condition".

Re-read the ad, as quoted in this thread. There is only mention of specific details being in good condition. There is no blanket statement, nor is there any mention of mechanical condition.

The wording "good condition"

Which does not refer to mechanical condition or a cover-all blanket

and the listed service history I think suffices to impress that the car's mechanical condition is satisfactory.

The service history, as quoted, shows one "service" (no mention of what was covered) in the last 28,000 miles and unspecified time.

One week is more than enough time for a perfectly good HG to fail, especially if the coolant level is low, if the rad fan isn't working or the rad is blocked or corroded.

Tilt

AdrianC wrote: »

You miss my point completely. Whether the buyer is trade or public is irrelevant. You stated that it was illegal to sell to a private buyer, only a trader. Wrong.



Re-read the ad, as quoted in this thread. There is only mention of specific details being in good condition. There is no blanket statement, nor is there any mention of mechanical condition.



Which does not refer to mechanical condition or a cover-all blanket



The service history, as quoted, shows one "service" (no mention of what was covered) in the last 28,000 miles and unspecified time.

One week is more than enough time for a perfectly good HG to fail, especially if the coolant level is low, if the rad fan isn't working or the rad is blocked or corroded.

Your'e obviously a trader. I can assure you that you would be in very hot water if you sold a car to a member of the public on a "spares or repairs" basis and then allowed it to be driven away.

I have the T-shirt.

AdrianC

Tilt wrote: »

Your'e obviously a trader.

Bzzt. Wrong.

I can assure you that you would be in very hot water if you sold a car to a member of the public on a "spares or repairs" basis

No, I wouldn't. Not so long as I was honest about the condition - which I'm sure the dealer here will say they were. The advert makes no mention of mechanical condition, remember?

And, once again, whether it's trade or private makes no difference whatsoever here.

and then allowed it to be driven away.

But, once again, we only have the OP's word for it that that's what happened. However, the dealer has documentary evidence to back up his likely assertion that it didn't.

Purely from an RTA point of view, and regardless of SOGA or any trading standard interpretations, let's not forget that it's always illegal to drive an unroadworthy car, no matter if you're a trader or an individual, whether you've just bought the car or not, and whether you knew it was unroadworthy or not. Whether a HG failure renders it "unroadworthy", rather than merely broken, is another question.

The ONLY magic formula regarding any "spares or repair" wording is that it doesn't somehow waive SOGA rights. Which brings us back to SOGA expectations from a 15yo, high mileage, near-scrap-value car with no assurances apparently made about mechanical condition, where even the buyer says they found no fault on pre-purchase inspection.

Tilt

Sorry Adrian C but your advice is totally flawed.

Maybe you should have a read of this;

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402142426/http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/676408/oft1241.pdf