Esa

nannytone_2

no.
to get into the work related group you have to score 15 points.
to get into the support group you have to meet one or more of the support group descriptors

paragon909

nannytone wrote: »

no.
to get into the work related group you have to score 15 points.
to get into the support group you have to meet one or more of the support group descriptors

That's not quite right.

To get in any group of ESA you need to get 15 points, It just depends on the person's circumstances and what descriptors scored the points and how DWP decide which group your placed in using the report from the "health care idiots"

People seem to think that it's the health care provider i.e. atos at the time for ESA now maximus, but that's not true. It's DWP decision makers who decide what points you get based on the health care report.

nannytone_2

obviously, because you have to be awarded ESA before they group you!
but if you supply enough information on the ESA50, and provide evidence that you meet one of the support group descriptors, you will be placed automatically in the support group without any other consideration being made

GirlFromMars_2

nannytone wrote: »

obviously, because you have to be awarded ESA before they group you!
but if you supply enough information on the ESA50, and provide evidence that you meet one of the support group descriptors, you will be placed automatically in the support group without any other consideration being made

No, I'm pretty certain that's not true.

The decision maker makes two separate decisions to put someone into the support group.

The first test is if someone fails the Work Capability Assessment, and relies on the Schedule 2 points system. They need 15 points to be found to be found to have limited capability for work.

Only once someone has found to have limited capability for work, does the Decision Maker then apply the Limited Capability for Work Related Activity Test (Schedule 3 descriptors)

(The other route is through special circumstances, but again they must be found to have Limited Capability For Work before they can be found to have Limited Capability for Work Related Activity.)

In practice from what I remember most of the Schedule 3 descriptors are similar to the descriptors that get you 15 points as part of Schedule 2, So presumably if you are likely to pass one of the Schedule 3 descriptors you will have scored at least 15 points from Schedule 2 as the descriptors are so similar.

To the person applying, it will appear as if they have been put directly into the support group. But the DWP decision maker makes two separate decisions to put someone into the support group, and the first decision is based on the Schedule 2 limited capability for work descriptors, for which people must get 15 points (or get through the special circumstances clause).

I officially know too much about the ESA process.

Gaz1971

And what usually happens to those in the wrag ?

paragon909

Gaz1971 wrote: »

And what usually happens to those in the wrag ?

wrag group is basically like JSA kind of but you dont need to look for work or sign on and you get more money.

But you would be required to go to JCP appointments and work program i.e. working links etc, Wrag is designed to suppose to get people back into work and help get back into work.

I would say the support group is designed like incapacity benefit where you dont need to do any of those things and aren't expected to get back into work anytime soon or ever.

Gaz1971

Work program? I have already done that. And what is the point of all that if you dont have to look for work?

ALso, when you fill in the form, do you answer the questions re your health problems for a good day or a bad day?

nannytone_2

how often you are expected to attend the job centre, would be on the discretion of your disability advisor.
i was in the WRAG for 2 years and had 2 JC interviews at the beginning of the claim and then i was never asked to attend anymore.
the point of the work focused interviews isn't to get you to look for work, but to ensure you are ready to work when/if your health improves.
so courses/work experience may be offered.
you do have to comply, but if any actions would be detrimental to your health you can refuse ( if you have evidence to back up the claim).

when you fill in the ESA50, you should give examples of both good and bad days. to use only the bad days on the claim would be fraud

Gaz1971

Ok, confused here, someone said you don't have to work or look for work while on ESA, so why do all the work related stuff?

paragon909

Gaz1971 wrote: »

Ok, confused here, someone said you don't have to work or look for work while on ESA, so why do all the work related stuff?

During the assessment rate of ESA i.e. 13 weeks its suppose to be you dont need to look for work, you dont need to attend the JCP, you dont need to attend work program. If when you go to your WCA and they assess your condition, The health care provider will send a report back to DWP and their decision makers will make a decision based on the report and what descriptors you should get awarded points if any.

Only if you get 15 points you will continue to get ESA in a group either support or wrag.

As I said before, Wrag requires claimants to sometime go to JCP appointments, work program to help the get back into work following an short illness.

The support group is designed for people where they have a long term illness and wont be getting back into work anytime soon, As I said this was abit like incapacity benefit, Which was reformed in 2007 before the tories took power.

People seem to think all the benefit issues is down to the tories but if you look at the welfare reform act 2007 it outlines the move from the old style incapacity benefit where you didn't need to do much to the new ESA system which was implemented in 2014.

The entire benefit system is completely messed up and no one can fix it not even labour.