The Garden Fence - help and support in tough times

greenbee

FBO - Canada aren't so keen on letting doctors in as they used to be. I know it used to be a popular option, but it isn't as easy even for UK citizens (then again, I got stopped and interrogated on the way in for a 2 week business trip... which is apparently unusual for UK citizens, but they seem to have got stricter recently.

Silvasava - most NHS contracts are opted out of the european working time directive (in fact, lots of contracts get you to do that - mine does) already. But there have been efforts to reduce doctors' working hours in recent years - after all, if I work an 80 week and make a mistake it is unlikely to have quite the same effect as if a doctor does. You're right. We don't need stressed, exhausted doctors. We need well-rested, well-looked after ones. Which means we need more of them. Which means we need to train them. Which means they need to think it's a good career option so they apply to medical school...

Softstuff

greenbee wrote: »

You'll be getting a massive influx of UK junior doctors soon Softstuff. Shortly followed by lots of GPs (they're due to have a new contract inflicted on them soon). Apparently request for permits to practice abroad usually run at 20-odd a month (I may be wrong, I've forgotten exactly, but it's low). Last week there were over 300. And Australia, NZ and SA are happy to have UK-trained doctors (saves them training their own), while our doctors like working in Oz in particular because there is so much money spent on medicine.

In my doctors surgery now my GP is German, there are 2 Irish GPs and one English GP, and 2 English Nurses.

The system here is far from ideal. We pay a lot for healthcare. We pay in one direction through taxes for Medicare, then we pay at point of access to see GPs or consultants (that's our choice, we could go to another surgery that's fully medicare funded or wait 6 months for public consultants), recently changes have been made where we also pay for tests and scans. Then we make a choice to pay for private hospital cover. Prescriptions are also a lot dearer (unless you're on benefits) and dentists, opticians etc are private.

That said, I'd rather pay and be properly treated with a doctor that has had sleep, even if it does mean my grocery bill has to be 1/4 of other people I know around here.

Floss

Doctors contracts have a special section in the WTD, and they do have to take compensatory rest after active on-call nights over a certain level just as any other worker.

Also, applications for overseas permits will be higher right now as we've just got to the end of a period of rotation, so trainees are at a point in their training when they apply for junior posts.

The other thing that is happening in doctors employment is that enhancements are allegedly offered to applicants to some trusts & hospitals, or cities are more tempting than larger more rural areas.

monnagran

I hate all this. I am of the generation where doctors, nurses,teachers, the clergy etcetera, went into their professions because they had a vocation. Most certainly it was not for the money or the working conditions which for the most part were abysmal. But they were respected by society for the contribution they made to it and for their willingness to train for years with no financial inducement.

I'm not saying that it was right or that all members of these professions were altruistic angels, but there was an element of sacrificial duty there.

Now it all seems to be about money and people are no longer valued by who they are, just by how much they earn. And therefore that is how people value themselves as well.

A bit muddled but I am going out and am late. You are now free to pick enormous holes in what I have said. Just remember that I am old and grew up in tougher times.

x

mancbird

I think you are right to some extent monnagran. It does seem that people are increasingly valued by their salary, not by their own individual qualities

I used to work full time and earn what was classed as a good salary. Then I took voluntary redundancy due to health issues and took on a lower paid job. When I had my babies I couldn't afford to go back to work because of childcare costs so we took the decision that I would set up my own business and work part time round the kids. I've lost count of the number of people who told me I wasting myself. My kids have thrived and due to my husband's work patterns, it is much better that one if us is always here. It don't earn anything like what I used to, but we are happy and our life suits us all more important than money

Rant over, that feels better! Hope everyone is having a good day. We are going to pop over to the beach shortly as hubby is off today. We were going to pack a "micnic" (as my son calls them!) but I have enough points on my subway card to get a free lunch for us all so we're going to do that instead

[Deleted User]

Money isn't everything is it? satisfaction and knowing you're rearing sound, balanced and grounded kiddlers and giving them a really good start in life outweighs any monetary defecit because you don't earn as much as you used to. I was lucky to be able to stay home and rear my girlies and don't regret a second of it. We weren't exactly poverty line but not well off either and cut our garment according to our cloth. We grew most of our fruit and veg and I home cooked everything we ate, we had 1 week holidays in this country, we didn't go out very much and we've never had much sartorial elegance so didn't bother that we had the same old clothes for years. Where we gained was enjoying life as a family, lots of lovely walks with the dogs, lots of 'fresh air activities, specially the gardening, making things rather than buying them, loads of craft stuff and time to take the girls to the multitude of activities they both took part in and also having their friends home to play/do homework most days of the week. Money isn't everything at all is it?

dreaming

monnagran wrote: »

I hate all this. I am of the generation where doctors, nurses,teachers, the clergy etcetera, went into their professions because they had a vocation. Most certainly it was not for the money or the working conditions which for the most part were abysmal. But they were respected by society for the contribution they made to it and for their willingness to train for years with no financial inducement.

I'm not saying that it was right or that all members of these professions were altruistic angels, but there was an element of sacrificial duty there.

Now it all seems to be about money and people are no longer valued by who they are, just by how much they earn. And therefore that is how people value themselves as well.

A bit muddled but I am going out and am late. You are now free to pick enormous holes in what I have said. Just remember that I am old and grew up in tougher times.

x

My daughter is a nurse, and she and many of her colleagues, would avow that they did not join the medical profession for money. I have seen my daughter white with tiredness when she has stayed on beyond her shift because of lack of other qualified staff (often through sickness caused by overworking). As she says, she can't just clock off and pick up the next morning where she left off. However, it seems that this government has decided that this vocation is reward enough and that to cap their salaries is perfectly acceptable. Unfortunately, vocations do not pay the bills (which are not capped) and as for being "respected by society" why are there so many security personnel now in hospitals? My daughter could not afford to heat her home adequately this winter (thank goodness it has been a mild one) and does not have much of a social life - partly through lack of money, but also because she is so tired. I agree that many press reports, especially recently over the junior doctors' strikes, do seem to show that all they are concerned about is money, but in my experience and through talking to my daughter and her friends, this is not the case for many medical staff of all levels. They all seem to care very much for the NHS but they are becoming increasingly disillusioned, and exhausted.

mancbird

MrsLurcherwalker wrote: »

Money isn't everything at all is it?

Completely agree! I feel very lucky that we were able to make that decision, but a lot of people don't understand it. It was easy for us to decide this as we live a long way from family (our nearest family is 250 miles away) and my husband's shift patterns are very unpredictable. By me doing what I do, it means at least one of us is always around after school, during holidays, if one of them is poorly etc. Of course we have had to make sacrifices (got rid of one car, no holidays, can't remember the last time I bought a full new outfit for myself) but the benefits for us far outweigh this.

It does help that we live where we do. It's a place where lots of people come on holiday so we have lots of local things to do and lots of beaches. We live inside a national park so lots of things to do right on our doorstep

Aside from all that, I LIKE being able to look after my little family. I used to be a terrible cook (I once set pasta on fire...) but I've learnt (mainly through this site!) how to cook tasty, nutritious meals. I make a lot of things for the kids and our home. We grow some of our veggies, we make do and mend. My family think this is bafflingly hilarious

nursemaggie

Looks like we do agree with you Monna. I certainly took up nursing for the job not the pay. My first pay check was £9 for a calender month. I don't find it is the case these days. Some join for the money because in relation to that they are paid much more. I had been earing £3.50 a week in an office

When I started my training nurses had to retire when they married. It used to be the same with teaches but I think it changed earlier. That rule went during my training but it was quite some time before they were allowed back after childbirth.

I never went back to work full time with my oldest two. It was extremely difficult to get a job in the NHS if you had children. I worked part time nights after my first but could not get a job after my second. I actually managed a charity shop for 4 years. That only gave me expenses as they did not pay a full time salary then.

I then got a job in a nursing home. The one mistake I did make with this part time stuff was no pension. There was not even the National Insurance credit you get these days when you have children.

I did work full time after my youngest as my ex was made redundant during my maternity leave. I did not even get the year I was going to take off. I also knew I only had 12 years left to pay into a pension. So yes I did take that into consideration.

I think society's expectations of women has changed. You are expected to go back to work after you have a baby. I still ended up with barely any pay because most of it went on childcare until he was 6 and then it began to reduce. Mum of course was nearly 80 so too old to help in fact I nursed her while working full time and running the house. I retired when he was 12.

DS at last has been to the doctors about his joints. He had a blood test for Rheumatoid arthritis this morning. I suspect he has the same unnamed variety I have. It runs in the family. At least he may not get sent on another physical job like this for work experience. I just wish he could get a proper job.

He has got an application in the pipeline working in the offices of Appliance online. He really wants this one they are a good company to work for.

MrsCD

Yes, Lyn, money isn't everything. We made the decision for me to be a stay at home mum when our first DD was born, over 30 years ago now :eek:
We couldn't afford holidays for many years, and I remember my ex-sil being quite scathing when I said I couldn't afford the bus fare to go to see my fil.
They had two wages and benefits for three children and couldn't understand that we were managing on very little.
I made clothes for the girls, and I was always around when they needed me, that's the bit you can't put a price on. We had home made birthday parties when some of their friends had more costly parties at the leisure centre, but I wouldn't change anything if I could go back. Blue Peter training came in handy!
Eventually I got a part time job as a dinner lady so I was still there when they came home from school. I never did full time work again, but did pay full stamp so I will have my own pension eventually.
If you put your mind to something, you can make it work.

I realise that not everyone can do this. My Mam had to work when I was born, because my Dad was doing National Service and she didn't have enough to live on, and we all lived with my grandparents until I was 5 and they got a council house.

We had a letter from hmrc saying what DH's new tax code is so he will pay less tax, and I think we might get some money back.