School fine withdrawn!

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

fluffnutter wrote: »

You've raised a real anomaly there that I'd not thought about. If courts allow a parent to take a child away without the other's permission or knowledge, then a fine specifically levied for this offence to the parent with no knowledge, is unreasonable.

Finally! An argument that makes sense! I'm going to have to back down a little <goes away disgruntled>

I think people just assumed you'd know that nobody has the right to dictate to the other parent what they do with their child when the kid is in their care, short of amputating limbs or selling them into slavery.

missprice

fluffnutter wrote: »

You were all saying lots of things, clearingout made a very particular point. I'm very sorry that I missed your post where you explained that it was a court-mandated tenet that parents have the right to take their children away without the other's permission or knowledge; this being a key factor if that parent without permission or knowledge is then fined should that holiday be in term time. Which number post was it again? Where you said this? I can't seem to find it.

But we all made the same point, court mandated or not, if the other parent has no idea what's happening then how can they be fined?

Even when the parents are still together, if one parent does not know that the other parent took child out of school how can it be right that they both pay a fine.

fivetide

fluffnutter wrote: »

You were all saying lots of things, clearingout made a very particular point. I'm very sorry that I missed your post where you explained that it was a court-mandated tenet that parents have the right to take their children away without the other's permission or knowledge; this being a key factor if that parent without permission or knowledge is then fined should that holiday be in term time. Which number post was it again? Where you said this? I can't seem to find it.

It was the point everyone was making because it was the issue the OP raised at the start of the thread. I said at the time you were making assumptions and not talking from a point of knowledge and experience.


I am glad that we have finally got it resolved though!

fluffnutter

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

I think people just assumed you'd know that nobody has the right to dictate to the other parent what they do with their child when the kid is in their care, short of amputating limbs or selling them into slavery.

Because of the fear of abduction, very real in some communities, I genuinely didn't know that taking your child abroad without the other parent's knowledge was possible.

Now that I've had this pointed out to me, obviously it's an anomaly that courts allow this yet hold both responsible.

fluffnutter

fivetide wrote: »

It was the point everyone was making because it was the issue the OP raised at the start of the thread.

I've just re-read the OP's opening three posts. I'm not seeing where he explains that it's a court-mandated tenet of parental responsibility that each parent can take the children abroad without the other parent's knowledge or permission. Can you find that for me? Save me reading his posts a third time?

missprice

fluffnutter wrote: »

Because of the fear of abduction, very real in some communities, I genuinely didn't know that taking your child abroad without the other parent's knowledge was possible.

Now that I've had this pointed out to me, obviously it's an anomaly that courts allow this yet hold both responsible.

If you hold the child's passport you can pretty much take that child wherever in the world you feel like.
All you have to do is not tell the other parent.
Some countries may ask to see proof that the other parent gave permission, some don't ask. I was never asked and I took my kids all over.

Guest101

fluffnutter wrote: »

I've just re-read the OP's opening three posts. I'm not seeing where he explains that it's a court-mandated tenet of parental responsibility that each parent can take the children abroad without the other parent's knowledge or permission. Can you find that for me? Save me reading his posts a third time?

I think there's some misinterpretation here.

If you wish to take your child abroad, then both parents should be present, or written consent gathered from the other parent. This is enforced by Airlines / Customs / Border Control.

The assumption here is that the holiday was indeed abroad, not an assumption i was inclined to make.

Guest101

missprice wrote: »

If you hold the child's passport you can pretty much take that child wherever in the world you feel like.
All you have to do is not tell the other parent.
Some countries may ask to see proof that the other parent gave permission, some don't ask. I was never asked and I took my kids all over.

Times have changed significantly. Britain is one country that does require consent from both parents. This is enforced on a wide ranging scale, as the reliance is on Airlines (other other transport providers) to spot this in the first instance.

In other words - not enforced very well

fluffnutter

missprice wrote: »

But we all made the same point, court mandated or not, if the other parent has no idea what's happening then how can they be fined?

That's not the same argument. Can you see that?

The court issue a fine to both parents because they deem both responsible. In logical opposition to this they allow one parent to take a child away without the other's knowledge. They are contradicting themselves. I didn't know about this contradiction until clearingout pointed it out.

It's the very fact that the courts allow parents to act independently then, illogically, hold them both responsible that makes this a sound argument against both being fined.

fivetide

fluffnutter wrote: »

I've just re-read the OP's opening three posts. I'm not seeing where he explains that it's a court-mandated tenet of parental responsibility that each parent can take the children abroad without the other parent's knowledge or permission. Can you find that for me? Save me reading his posts a third time?

I can read it for you but I can't understand it for you. You simply wanted to make it the OP's fault. No one else did.


I was being polite, the simple fact is you were wrong. You've dragged a thread off topic and to seven pages because you (and only you) were repeatedly making the same assumptions and irrelevant points.


I called you on it and you were defensive, as you were with everyone else. And look! Here you are still being defensive.


You should just apologise and be on your way.