School fine withdrawn!

fluffnutter

I'm a bit confused. Each situation is contestable but there's no need to contest this one because the fine's been withdrawn (albeit on a technicality). So there's no need to defend yourself, OP.

If you're worried about it happening again, then you have the right to defend yourself the next time. And the time after that etc. Each situation will be judged on its own merits so you can't really build your defence until it's happened.

So there's no need to worry really although if you think the whole law in this area is unjust, then, yeah, campaign more generally about it. Groups that support separated fathers in particular will be a good starting point.

Not really sure what you're after if I'm honest. Do you feel in a precarious and weakened position because things with your ex are so bad and proper custody/access etc. hasn't been sorted out? Perhaps it's best to focus on that and worry about another fine if and when it happens.

fluffnutter

clearingout wrote: »

the Law is quite clear on what separated parents, with parental responsibility, can and cannot do without consulting the other parent. One of those things is to be allowed to do whatever they want with the child on 'their' time. If my ex chooses to take the children out of school on his time, there is going to be nothing at all all I can do about it. If I have enough notice - several months - I could take the issue through court but it is well known that judges don't say no to holidays. It would also cost me money I don't have (and would probably be cheaper to pay the fine!) If I don't have the notice, my ex gets to do what he wants and I end up with the fine?

You can't have it both ways. If a fine is to be issued to both parents, the parent removing a child without the other parent's permission needs to be punished by the courts as well, surely?

You've raised a real anomaly there that I'd not thought about. If courts allow a parent to take a child away without the other's permission or knowledge, then a fine specifically levied for this offence to the parent with no knowledge, is unreasonable.

Finally! An argument that makes sense! I'm going to have to back down a little <goes away disgruntled>

Guest101

Gaz126 wrote: »

I am very open to everyones opinion, whether I agree or not. The council has not resolved the issue. This will happen again. I would like suggestions - please!

You have a court order in place, which specifies the times where you have sole legal custody of the children, at all other times your ex has sole legal custody of the children.

That does not remove your PR, it is a court ordered schedule. Outside of your alloted time you do not have the legal right to 'take' the children. Obviously there can be negotiation between you and your ex.

If you went to court (that is when you contest the fine, before than it is basically an out of court settlement), you may be able to argue that you are ordered by the court to relinquish custody at the times in question and cannot turn up to take the children, as that would be a contempt of court. - i'd obviously seek legal advice before following the above, but logically it makes sense.

missprice

fluffnutter wrote: »

You've raised a real anomaly there that I'd not thought about. If courts allow a parent to take a child away without the other's permission or knowledge, then a fine specifically levied for this offence to the parent with no knowledge, is unreasonable.

Finally! An argument that makes sense! I'm going to have to back down a little <goes away disgruntled>

And just what was it you thought we were all saying?

fluffnutter

Guest101 wrote: »

You have a court order in place, which specifies the times where you have sole legal custody of the children, at all other times your ex has sole legal custody of the children.

That does not remove your PR, it is a court ordered schedule. Outside of your alloted time you do not have the legal right to 'take' the children. Obviously there can be negotiation between you and your ex.

If you went to court (that is when you contest the fine, before than it is basically an out of court settlement), you may be able to argue that you are ordered by the court to relinquish custody at the times in question and cannot turn up to take the children, as that would be a contempt of court. - i'd obviously seek legal advice before following the above, but logically it makes sense.

I had to read this a few times. But I think you mean you can't appear at an unscheduled time to 'take the children' [to school], i.e. you have no control over their actions when they're not with you (as this would be contempt of court) so can't be fined if they don't go to school during these periods.

See, I like this one too! I'm more than happy to rethink my position when I'm presented with arguments that make sense.

It's a much better way to bring someone round to your way of thinking than telling them to 'do some knitting' and keep their 'stupid opinions' to themselves

Guest101

fluffnutter wrote: »

I had to read this a few times. But I think you mean you can't appear at an unscheduled time to 'take the children' [to school], i.e. you have no control over their actions when they're not with you (as this would be contempt of court) so can't be fined if they don't go to school during these periods.

See, I like this one too! I'm more than happy to rethink my position when I'm presented with arguments that make sense.

It's a much better way to bring someone round to your way of thinking than telling them to 'do some knitting' and keep their 'stupid opinions' to themselves

Glad i could help

marisco_2

fluffnutter wrote: »

Situations are rarely about one person being wholly right and one person being wholly wrong and if you feel you can justify your own behaviour, don't you think that the other person feels exactly the same way?

The way that some people choose to behave with their ex defies all reason and logic and has no justification at all. You can be as approachable, reasonable and accommodating as it is possible to be and still end up being treated appallingly by a person only interested in meeting their own needs and wants.

fluffnutter

missprice wrote: »

And just what was it you thought we were all saying?

You were all saying lots of things, clearingout made a very particular point. I'm very sorry that I missed your post where you explained that it was a court-mandated tenet that parents have the right to take their children away without the other's permission or knowledge; this being a key factor if that parent without permission or knowledge is then fined should that holiday be in term time. Which number post was it again? Where you said this? I can't seem to find it.

fluffnutter

marisco wrote: »

The way that some people choose to behave with their ex defies all reason and logic and has no justification at all. You can be as approachable, reasonable and accommodating as it is possible to be and still end up being treated appallingly by a person only interested in meeting their own needs and wants.

Of course. This absolutely happens. Every person who reads my comments and puts themselves in the category above, that of blameless, reasonable and accommodating victim of another's appalling behaviour, can be safe in the knowledge that I'm not referring to them. And if I'm not referring to them, there's no need for them to be upset by my comments, is there.

peachyprice

Gaz126 wrote: »

Hi, well, some interesting points raised!. I will give more details but first a scenario: Separated for 2 years, not amicable, this isn't a choice, 3 kids, trying for a contact order, other parent applies for holiday, turned down. This is the first the other parent will hear of this! Holiday taken, children removed from school - how do you intend to prevent this? I now receive a fine for £180 no contesting, not paid, in court. It is the law, both 'parents' have PR!

Ok, so when you heard about it did you contact the school and tell them you didn't agree with the holiday and that she was removing them from school without your permission.

You couldn't have prevented her, but you could have covered your own back by making your stance known to the school.

You may both have PR, but that doesn't mean that you should be fined for something you have no control over.