Agreed to sell car to aggressive buyer

hollydays

If someone bullies or harasses you, it's never your fault.

Spicy_McHaggis

bod1467 wrote: »

So you agree with the edit then (as that it what it amounts to).

Well if it doesn't continue there is no offence to prove.

As to the edit, he was wrong, it's easier to deal with if it doesn't continue. Filing all the papers in the hope that's the end of the matter is far easier than trying to secure a conviction.

powerful_Rogue

Spicy_McHaggis wrote: »

Yet the legislation states the defendant knows or ought to know and makes no mention that the victim must tell them to stop. Out of interest where are you getting your information from?


If what you say is correct then the act isn't written to protect the most vulnerable who maybe incapable of telling an offender to stop.

It makes it easier to prove the offence if the OP has told the person to stop.

Its easier to prove someone knows something when you have evidence that you have told them to stop, then to prove that someone ought to know.

Why do you believe the OP is incapable of sending a text message saying, "Please stop contacting me, any further correspondence I will deem as harassment"

Spicy_McHaggis

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

It makes it easier to prove the offence if the OP has told the person to stop.

Its easier to prove someone knows something when you have evidence that you have told them to stop, then to prove that someone ought to know.

Why do you believe the OP is incapable of sending a text message saying, "Please stop contacting me, any further correspondence I will deem as harassment"

I never said they aren't capable, if fact they have done this. But how do you prove the offender has received, read and understood it.

Would it not be better evidence so show they have been served a harassment warning notice or been spoken to by the police telling them to stop?

I can't see any police force having a harassment policy stating that the victim must inform the suspect to stop. It wil almost certainly be, record the crime, investigate it and in doing so warn the offender of said harassment and deal with according to policy.

hoggy52uk

I am no longer able to cope with driving. I am under a Psych and about to go back into hospital for a course of ECT. Sorry Daytona0, but mental health services who I visit twice a week do not get involved in selling vehicles. That is beyond their remit. Nor can they filter calls or sit by me while I take calls. I am capable of dealing with normal, reasonable people. If you (and you only have my word for it) had seen the texts threatening physical violence towards me (the Police are being very helpful), you would get a picture of who I was dealing with. In total now, he has left over 20 threatening voice mails and well over 30 threatening texts. My instincts when dealing with him on Saturday were correct. No average person would behave in this way, even if I did back out of a "contract". He did let slip he was a car dealer. I was scammed by him in the same way you hear of people being scammed by callers re viruses on their computers, investment schemes etc. Yes daytona0, you only have my word for it but on Sat I was very low and struggling, and this guy went for the kill. I could have dealt with a pleasant respectful person, but not an eBay predator like this.
And daytona0, you probably think if I can articulate this response, I cannot be ill. Do not presume that mental illness means a lack of intelligence (I am a physicist)! It does however, esp when you are feeling low, leave you open to people who are quite happy to take advantage of you- in this case making me think he was doing me a favour by offering 1/3 the price I wanted for the car. This man knew what he was doing and when he knew he was "sussed" went for physical threats and harassment to get his way. The irony is, that had he forwarded proof of train tickets, I would have refunded them, but he is totally unapproachable and the Police have advised me not to contact him, so he has shot himself in the foot.

In my opinion, this was a man who new exactly what he was doing. He was polished. He was friendly on the phone, asking me about my life, then telling me about his. He then suddenly got aggressive, demanding I take the car off eBay, write out a contract etc. When he knew I had sussed him, he became an aggressive threatening bully.

I would like to thank EVERYONE for their kind responses, but do not understand why some people follow these threads just to counter the person who is seeking help.

hoggy52uk

Sorry, last reply!
I would like to make it clear that I mention my mental health not for sympathy, but to illustrate that this person spotted someone who was not perhaps firing on all cylinders on the day, and very clearly decided to take full advantage of the situation to his financial advantage! Thanks again

jjlandlord

hoggy52uk wrote: »

in this case making me think he was doing me a favour by offering 1/3 the price I wanted for the car.

This guy looks like a piece of work, but this is called negotiation skills.

He doesn't know you, and it seems that he never met you, so if he can sweet talk you or someone else over emails or on the phone into dropping their asking price I'd say that he is a good buyer.

You mention that he might be a car dealer so he's got experience.

After that he of course crossed the line with threats and harassment.

You should separate the normal commercial 'game' from further unacceptable behaviour.

powerful_Rogue

Spicy_McHaggis wrote: »

I never said they aren't capable, if fact they have done this. But how do you prove the offender has received, read and understood it.

Would it not be better evidence so show they have been served a harassment warning notice or been spoken to by the police telling them to stop?

I can't see any police force having a harassment policy stating that the victim must inform the suspect to stop. It wil almost certainly be, record the crime, investigate it and in doing so warn the offender of said harassment and deal with according to policy.

3.7. Knowledge of the offender - knows or ought to know

3.7.1. This deals specifically with the offender and their knowledge; this has led to some confusion. It is not a prerequisite that the offender has to be informed by Police that their behaviour is harassment or causing fear.

3.7.2. This aspect can be proven by any of the following:

• Reasonable person test: suspect knows or ought to know that their course of conduct amounts to harassment (e.g. if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think it amounted to harassment);
• The victim or a third party (this could include Police, family friends) have made it clear to the offender that their behaviour is or has caused harassment and/or fear. Depending on the circumstances this could be words or conduct;
• Consider the background of the case as this may well provide the evidence such as breaches of under-takings such as court orders;
• Previous criminal or civil cases may help to prove this aspect.

http://www.kent.police.uk/about_us/policies/crime-intelligence/sops/n14a.html

jjlandlord

Guys, let me sum harassment up for you:

On the one hand there is indeed no requirement to inform the 'offender' of anything.
On the other hand, having evidence that he was informed can help the case.

So those of you who says that there is not requirement are right, and those who say that informing/making it clear is a good idea are also right.

daytona0

hoggy52uk wrote: »

I am no longer able to cope with driving. I am under a Psych and about to go back into hospital for a course of ECT. Sorry Daytona0, but mental health services who I visit twice a week do not get involved in selling vehicles. That is beyond their remit. Nor can they filter calls or sit by me while I take calls. I am capable of dealing with normal, reasonable people. If you (and you only have my word for it) had seen the texts threatening physical violence towards me (the Police are being very helpful), you would get a picture of who I was dealing with. In total now, he has left over 20 threatening voice mails and well over 30 threatening texts. My instincts when dealing with him on Saturday were correct. No average person would behave in this way, even if I did back out of a "contract". He did let slip he was a car dealer. I was scammed by him in the same way you hear of people being scammed by callers re viruses on their computers, investment schemes etc. Yes daytona0, you only have my word for it but on Sat I was very low and struggling, and this guy went for the kill. I could have dealt with a pleasant respectful person, but not an eBay predator like this.
And daytona0, you probably think if I can articulate this response, I cannot be ill. Do not presume that mental illness means a lack of intelligence (I am a physicist)! It does however, esp when you are feeling low, leave you open to people who are quite happy to take advantage of you- in this case making me think he was doing me a favour by offering 1/3 the price I wanted for the car. This man knew what he was doing and when he knew he was "sussed" went for physical threats and harassment to get his way. The irony is, that had he forwarded proof of train tickets, I would have refunded them, but he is totally unapproachable and the Police have advised me not to contact him, so he has shot himself in the foot.

In my opinion, this was a man who new exactly what he was doing. He was polished. He was friendly on the phone, asking me about my life, then telling me about his. He then suddenly got aggressive, demanding I take the car off eBay, write out a contract etc. When he knew I had sussed him, he became an aggressive threatening bully.

I would like to thank EVERYONE for their kind responses, but do not understand why some people follow these threads just to counter the person who is seeking help.

My main gripe is why you are exempt from responsibility resulting from your actions. You are clearly a smart person and got yourself into a bit of a pickle by not approaching a third party before writing out a possible contract. Keep that in mind for future transactions as I wouldn't want you to end up in this mess again.