EE out of warranty - phone issues

k.a.w

I recently wrote to EE to complain about the battery in my iphone 5s, after having it diagnosed by Apple as a 'worn battery', they advised me to go to EE as I would have consumer rights.
Please see below my email to customer complaints:

I am writing to complain about the battery life on my iPhone 5s, I began my contract in September 2013. I have found over recent months that the battery will hardly last a 12 hour day without running out of charge, this is without excessive use. In some cases my phone can drop from 55% battery to 10%battery with no usage at all.

I have had my phone diagnosed by Apple and it has been concluded that my phone has a''worn battery", meaning that it will never again hold its charge and will gradually get worse over time.

I realise that 15months into my contract I am out of the apple 12 month warranty. However the Sales of Goods Act 1979 states that, goods must be sold in a satisfactory state, as described, fit for purpose and last as reasonable time.
I believe that being sold a 24 month contract that the item should last at least those 24 months without major fault. Otherwise it is not lasting it's reasonable time, or fit for purpose.
Could I therefore suggest as a solution, as the retailer, you replace my battery free of charge to rectify the fault in my phone.
I would appreciate someone looking further into this issue and I anticipate a reply with a solution to this problem.



I then received a reply from EE, which from the outset looks helpful but after re-reading, I feel I am being fobbed off. After doing a bit research I realised that is what tends to happen when dealing with EE, please see below for their reply:

Thank you for your email regarding the issue you are experiencing with your iPhone and allowing me the opportunity to reply. I am sorry to hear about the problem you have with the battery and that you have spoke to the manufacturer regarding their phones fault.

When EE provides a phone to a customer they are provided with a manufacturer?s warranty. As your network provider we are responsible for the network but any problems with your phone must be dealt with by the manufacturer. As a gesture of goodwill, we offer a repair service via the EE stores or by sending a repair postal bag direct to your home. The stores may be able to provide you with a loan phone however this is subject to availability and we cannot guarantee that it will have the specifications of your current phone.
Apple, unlike other manufacturers only carry a 12 month warranty, Samsung for example cover 24 months for their phones, batteries and accessories are only covered for 6 months.
The phone as you have mentioned was provided back on 03/10/2013 and is out of warranty, the fault as you have mentioned is a recent one which would indicate that the problem was not their at manufacture as I'm sure Apple would have validated.
As you have also stated, the Sales of good act, "goods must be sold in a satisfactory state, as described, fit for purpose and last as reasonable time." The goods were sold in a satisfactory state, it has been fit for purpose due to the continued usage you have had with the phone and the satisfactory period is within the manufacturers warranty period.
You may look to have you phone repaired by Apple or a third party at your own discretion as we would not be able to assist you with that cost.

COuld anyone advise on the next course of action? I have read alot about EE being liable as they have sold a good with a service and therefore it is their responsibility. Many thanks.

Silk

k.a.w wrote: »

COuld anyone advise on the next course of action? I have read alot about EE being liable as they have sold a good with a service and therefore it is their responsibility. Many thanks.

The problem you have is that in general batteries are considered to be consumables and have a limited life, something like 400 recharge cycles before they start to deteriorate.
Most manufacturers only give 6 months warranty but although the deterioration is usually gradual sometimes they can be pressed if they show severe deterioration.
In your case I doubt you will get very far with a claim and probably easiest is to get it replaced by Apple at about £55.
You can get them online much cheaper if you are capable of fitting them but may not be genuine Apple

Cuilean

I'll be watching this thread with interest. I was in a similar situation to you a few years ago with a T-Mobile provided iPhone 4S which died not long after the 12 month warranty expired. I got an identical response to yours, and couldn't find any way past it. They will help you for 12 months, and then that's the end of your warranty and their responsibility to help you.


After hitting stalemate with them, I just paid for Apple to fit a new battery, which didn't even seem to fix the problem :mad:


In the end, I bought an iPhone 5 SIM free from Apple, and an Apple Care agreement to cover the phone for an extra 12 months after the Apple 12 month warranty ends.

wiogs

If you use http://www.icopybot.com/itunes-backup-manager.htm you can see how many cycles your phone battery has been through.

My phone is not holding a charge as well as it used to now but has been through almost 600 cycles so not surprising.

You can use the trial version of iBackupBot, no need to pay.

nickthegreat

they can't just say "we provide you with a manufacturers warranty" as if that overrides your consumer rights. you haven't had any contact with the manufacturer and are not obliged to (in fact doing so erodes any rights you have against the retailer)

they state that:

"The goods were sold in a satisfactory state, it has been fit for purpose due to the continued usage you have had with the phone and the satisfactory period is within the manufacturers warranty period."

'fit for purpose' has nothing to do with the manufacturers warranty or continued usage of the phone over some arbitrary time period that they decide. the sale of goods act determines the time period, not the retailer.

i'd look for examples of this being a fairly widespread and recognised issue, and then respond by saying "it wasn't sold in a satisfactory state, this is a known and reasonably widespread issue (see x, y and z), therefore it is reasonable to assume that this phone (don't distinguish the phone from the battery) was sold to me at the POS with an inherent flaw. It was therefore never in a satisfactory state, but just appeared to be.

something along those lines would be my response, but I'm sure someone else can chime in and do better!

wealdroam

Might be worth reading MSE's Consumer Rights guide.

Here is a short extract from that article:

Know who's responsible

When returning items, beware shops trying the oldest trick in the book: saying they're not responsible for the shoddy goods and you must call the manufacturer. This is total nonsense!

If a company fobs you off by saying “go to the maker instead”, it's wrong. It's the retailer's job to sort it.

It doesn't matter if it's an iPod from a high street shop or a designer frock from a department store. If something's broken, torn, ripped or faulty, the seller has a legal duty to put it right as your contract is with it.

Also you will see in that article that after six months from sale you may need to prove that the goods were faulty at the time of sale, and the problem isn't due to misuse or fair wear and tear.
As a battery is almost expected to deteriorate with age, you may have difficulty proving that this issue is not due to fair wear and tear.

grumbler

k.a.w wrote: »

COuld anyone advise on the next course of action? I have read alot about EE being liable as they have sold a good with a service and therefore it is their responsibility. Many thanks.

Pay for a new battery.

Although EE's reply is a typical fobbing off, they are right that even 2-years' warranties don't cover batteries.
You stand no chance to prove in court that the battery is supposed to last more than a year. In practice they can, but this greatly depends on the usage.

nickthegreat

wealdroam wrote: »

Might be worth reading MSE's Consumer Rights guide.

Here is a short extract from that article:


Also you will see in that article that after six months from sale you may need to prove that the goods were faulty at the time of sale, and the problem isn't due to misuse or fair wear and tear.
As a battery is almost expected to deteriorate with age, you may have difficulty proving that this issue is not due to fair wear and tear.

exactly this. which is why i mentioned researching if this is widespread (which I'm fairly sure it will be) because you can argue that the fault was always going to occur regardless of treatment.

this approach usually works. never go back to the manufacturer. i never returned one xbox360 to MS, despite all my RROD yet that was the default reply, often several times.

nickthegreat

grumbler wrote: »

Pay for the new battery.

Although EE's reply is a typical fobbing off, they are right that even 2-years' warranties don't cover batteries.
You stand no chance to prove in court that the battery is supposed to last more than a year. In practice they can, but this greatly depends on the usage.

but you aren't buying a battery and a phone separately. i can't see how they could argue this effectively. i mean what if the battery only lasted a week? fit for purpose would imply the life of at least the contract you are purchasing. and that seems to be my experience when talking to networks (admittedly on a samsung). they've got your back for the life of the contract. apparently that's not always the case, will definitely be more wary in the future!

grumbler

nickthegreat wrote: »

but you aren't buying a battery and a phone separately

What difference does this make?

Is it not the same for cars, toys and many other goods with batteries?
Printers with cartridges? ....

what if the battery only lasted a week?

A week is not a reasonable time for a mobile phone battery to last. 1 year is a reasonable time.

"Reasonable" is the term used in the SoGA.

nickthegreat

grumbler wrote: »

What difference does this make?

Is it not the same for cars, toys and many other goods with batteries?
Printers with cartridges? ....

i wouldn't say so (but i don't know).

with those examples they are sold separately and the packaging (often/always?) says so. phone batteries are integral (and frequently non removeable) parts of a product you bought.

and again, fit for purpose seems to imply the duration of the contract. although technically i guess they could claim they never sold you the phone, it was a gift....

that's what i'd argue