Leaving school - is this true?

Londonsu

Still happens Margaret, my niece leaves college this year and has already had two job offers, one in the office of the cleaning company her Granddad worked for and one in the office of the company her mum works for, she did work experience in both places and both were impressed by her work ethic, and enthusiasm.


She will take the job offer where her mum works as its nearer home

AngelOfTheNorth

margaretclare wrote: »

It used to be accepted that when a child left school and entered the adult world, he/she was expected to contribute to the household income. Other writers e.g. Alan Sillitoe described how they left school on a Friday and started at the bike factory Monday morning.

When my elder daughter was staying on at school past 16 I was severely taken to task by a woman I'd known all my life, in the village where I grew up. 'Time she left school and started bringing some money in instead of you keeping her'.

'Bringing some money in' and 'keeping her' were words you often heard then. This was the mid-70s.

And then the world changed beyond recognition. At this point in time, there are not enough jobs for all those who want them. Of course the daughter in question would be unlikely to have this problem if she were living in the 1970s. She isn't.

margaretclare wrote: »

Incidentally, how can someone claim JSA if they've never worked, never paid in any NI contributions?

Because we have income based benefits as well as contribution based.

https://www.gov.uk/jobseekers-allowance/what-youll-get

greensalad

margaretclare wrote: »

I really do live in a different world. Or, as the late P D James wrote in one of her last novels '...an England they no longer recognised'.

It used to be accepted that when a child left school and entered the adult world, he/she was expected to contribute to the household income. Other writers e.g. Alan Sillitoe described how they left school on a Friday and started at the bike factory Monday morning.

When my elder daughter was staying on at school past 16 I was severely taken to task by a woman I'd known all my life, in the village where I grew up. 'Time she left school and started bringing some money in instead of you keeping her'.

'Bringing some money in' and 'keeping her' were words you often heard then. This was the mid-70s.

DH tells how he brought his very first pay-packet home from his first week as an engineering apprentice. It was so small and when he handed it over to his mother unopened she didn't know whether to laugh or cry. He'd had an argument with his father who had arranged for him to be articled to a firm of accountants he knew. DH didn't want that. 'Well, we can't keep you' - the sub-text 'keep you in idleness'. DH went to an engineering firm he'd visited while at technical school and they agreed to give him a trial.

When my first marriage broke down after weeks and I went home, those words were said by my mother 'I can't keep you'. I was indignant and insisted on keeping myself.

Where do all those benefits come from that the OP is describing and which will disappear when a child becomes an adult? When was it ever decided that having children was a paying proposition, to be lamented when it comes to an end?

Incidentally, how can someone claim JSA if they've never worked, never paid in any NI contributions? Isn't this meant to be the 'safety net' for those who really have no other opportunity?

My youngest step-GD hasn't yet achieved her ambition, to go into the airline industry. She, too, didn't want to go to university but she had 2 job offers on leaving 6th form. One was as a care assistant, but she turned that down. She's now learning to be a pizza chef in a gastro-pub near her school. Not what she wants long-term, but she's working and saving for it. A civilian pilot's licence is very expensive. But she knows what she wants and I haven't the slightest doubt that she'll get there.

To be honest, I find it crazy that it is parents who have been in this situation (for example, in the 70s) who treat their children this way.

Yes, the girl is an adult now but she clearly hasn't been taught properly or she'd already be sorting herself out. Why did her parents not discuss this with her beforehand? Why didn't they say when she STARTED sixth form "when you're 19, you're going to need to get a full time job and help us out. We're not going to kick you out on the street, but we want you to make a contribution." I'm not going to lie, it is hard to find work as a young person (youth unemployment is high and things like zero hour contracts impact many people) but I can't help but think that her parents just have instilled this in her long ago. I'm 24. I know my Mum would be happy to have my living with her if I needed to but certainly not for free.

If the parents CAN afford to look after their children and want to help them out, they should charge them rent and then pay it back to them when they need money (e.g deposit for first house or wedding cost etc). When my partner turned 16 and got a job his parents took 50% as rent for 6 months. After 6 months, they returned it all to him. They were well off but wanted him to understand that part of your money as an adult has to go somewhere. Of course he was given the money back, and used it to fund his driving lessons. I think it's a pretty good idea.

margaretclare

greensalad wrote: »

To be honest, I find it crazy that it is parents who have been in this situation (for example, in the 70s) who treat their children this way.

Yes, the girl is an adult now but she clearly hasn't been taught properly or she'd already be sorting herself out. Why did her parents not discuss this with her beforehand? Why didn't they say when she STARTED sixth form "when you're 19, you're going to need to get a full time job and help us out. We're not going to kick you out on the street, but we want you to make a contribution." I'm not going to lie, it is hard to find work as a young person (youth unemployment is high and things like zero hour contracts impact many people) but I can't help but think that her parents just have instilled this in her long ago. I'm 24. I know my Mum would be happy to have my living with her if I needed to but certainly not for free.

If the parents CAN afford to look after their children and want to help them out, they should charge them rent and then pay it back to them when they need money (e.g deposit for first house or wedding cost etc). When my partner turned 16 and got a job his parents took 50% as rent for 6 months. After 6 months, they returned it all to him. They were well off but wanted him to understand that part of your money as an adult has to go somewhere. Of course he was given the money back, and used it to fund his driving lessons. I think it's a pretty good idea.

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

I've never agreed with the mantra '50% of all young people should go to university'. Not everyone is academically-inclined. Practical skills are equally essential in any society and should be encouraged.

There are further opportunities post-A levels and not necessarily university.

mumps

margaretclare wrote: »

I really do live in a different world. Or, as the late P D James wrote in one of her last novels '...an England they no longer recognised'.

It used to be accepted that when a child left school and entered the adult world, he/she was expected to contribute to the household income. Other writers e.g. Alan Sillitoe described how they left school on a Friday and started at the bike factory Monday morning.

When my elder daughter was staying on at school past 16 I was severely taken to task by a woman I'd known all my life, in the village where I grew up. 'Time she left school and started bringing some money in instead of you keeping her'.

'Bringing some money in' and 'keeping her' were words you often heard then. This was the mid-70s.

DH tells how he brought his very first pay-packet home from his first week as an engineering apprentice. It was so small and when he handed it over to his mother unopened she didn't know whether to laugh or cry. He'd had an argument with his father who had arranged for him to be articled to a firm of accountants he knew. DH didn't want that. 'Well, we can't keep you' - the sub-text 'keep you in idleness'. DH went to an engineering firm he'd visited while at technical school and they agreed to give him a trial.

When my first marriage broke down after weeks and I went home, those words were said by my mother 'I can't keep you'. I was indignant and insisted on keeping myself.

Where do all those benefits come from that the OP is describing and which will disappear when a child becomes an adult? When was it ever decided that having children was a paying proposition, to be lamented when it comes to an end?

Incidentally, how can someone claim JSA if they've never worked, never paid in any NI contributions? Isn't this meant to be the 'safety net' for those who really have no other opportunity?

My youngest step-GD hasn't yet achieved her ambition, to go into the airline industry. She, too, didn't want to go to university but she had 2 job offers on leaving 6th form. One was as a care assistant, but she turned that down. She's now learning to be a pizza chef in a gastro-pub near her school. Not what she wants long-term, but she's working and saving for it. A civilian pilot's licence is very expensive. But she knows what she wants and I haven't the slightest doubt that she'll get there.

Didn't your step gd go to university? I only remember that because I thought it was the same university as my youngest son. He graduated last summer and I can't remember but I had a feeling your GD was either a year ahead or a year behind him.

I must have mixed you up with someone else, in my head I thought I remembered you saying she had gone to a good private school and then got into this university and I thought my son had done well as he went to the state school round the corner.

I don't know why random stuff stays in my head, even if I get the source wrong, and other things I want to remember, like why I went to the shop in the first place, just seems to disappear.

Ah well mine are all graduated now and all working so I don't have worries with this, in fact two of mine have had a promotion in the last month so I am lucky.

It does seem odd that the state thinks a teenager who has left education needs less to live on than the same teenager at school. It does sound like the benefit level parents can claim for a teenager are too high but I do know it can be hard to get work, often a case of knowing someone who can put a word in for you.

Morglin

margaretclare wrote: »

Incidentally, how can someone claim JSA if they've never worked, never paid in any NI contributions? Isn't this meant to be the 'safety net' for those who really have no other opportunity?

There have always been non contributory benefits available to those that haven't paid in, since the old days of the National Assistance Board.

The only difference between then and now is that, in those days, you could literally walk straight into full time work, and today you cannot.

There have been 'worker' top ops since 1971, called various things, and Supplementary Benefit was bought in, during the DHSS days, way back, to fund the top ups to the unwaged.

Little has changed, for many, many years, other than the names of the benefits.

Lin

Mojisola

greensalad wrote: »

That's kinda how benefits work. There has to be a cut off point, or should we just continue to support fully grown adults who live with their parents still?

And everyone knows when those cut-off points are going to happen so there is plenty of time to plan in advance.

greensalad

margaretclare wrote: »

Well said. Couldn't agree more.

I've never agreed with the mantra '50% of all young people should go to university'. Not everyone is academically-inclined. Practical skills are equally essential in any society and should be encouraged.

There are further opportunities post-A levels and not necessarily university.

Apprenticeship, more school, uni, college, job. There are options. But it seems none of these options were actually discussed. And more importantly the now-adult wasn't told that this is what she needed to decide before it was too late.

margaretclare

mumps wrote: »

Didn't your step gd go to university? I only remember that because I thought it was the same university as my youngest son. He graduated last summer and I can't remember but I had a feeling your GD was either a year ahead or a year behind him.

I must have mixed you up with someone else, in my head I thought I remembered you saying she had gone to a good private school and then got into this university and I thought my son had done well as he went to the state school round the corner.

I don't know why random stuff stays in my head, even if I get the source wrong, and other things I want to remember, like why I went to the shop in the first place, just seems to disappear.

Ah well mine are all graduated now and all working so I don't have worries with this, in fact two of mine have had a promotion in the last month so I am lucky.

It does seem odd that the state thinks a teenager who has left education needs less to live on than the same teenager at school. It does sound like the benefit level parents can claim for a teenager are too high but I do know it can be hard to get work, often a case of knowing someone who can put a word in for you.

Yes, this is all true regarding my eldest step-GD. She went to Nottingham University, at present she's spending a year with a pharmaceutical company in Basel, Switzerland, intends to continue to PhD level and hopes to become a research scientist in some medical or pharmaceutical branch.

Younger one was turned down by the RAF but hopes to fly helicopters.

Yes, they both went to a public school 6th form. I've seen that what runs down that line of the family is a very high level of commitment and work ethic. I have the greatest admiration for them and I'm sure they'll succeed.

My eldest GD has qualified as a painter and decorator. She, like many of the young folk that I know, has a very strong work ethic and fierce independence. I admire them all.

It's true that it used to be possible to walk straight into jobs but is no longer, but nevertheless, there are opportunities if you look for them.

margaretclare

PS: to mumps: Yes, your son did well, but my eldest GD didn't necessarily do any better for having been to public school. Her first choice was Cambridge but they didn't accept her.