Parking charge notice from VCS - Liverpool John Lennon Airport

exboyracer

Hi all,
Newbie here, so can I apologise in advance for any inadvertent transgressions against forum etiquette!
I have done some reading in this section of the forum, but there is a lot of information to take in so again I apologise if I ask a question which has already been answered somewhere else.

So, from the title of this post you will have already worked out that I have received a parking charge notice for stopping on the approach road to Liverpool Airport to drop off a passenger.
As per the newbies thread, and with direct reference to an almost identical claim on this forum I set up a new email account and sent in an appeal against the charge to VCS.
I was unsurprised to receive a letter in the post yesterday from VCS denying my appeal. What did surprise me is that it now looks like the only second stage appeal process that is available to me is via ICS, rather than POPLA, and it appears that I am almost certain to loose this appeal.
From what I can gather, the advice is to then simply ignore any further demands for money from VCS.

Which brings me to my main question - what is the likelihood of VCS pursuing the matter further, and what are the probable outcomes?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Umkomaas

You've got all of that spot-on (other than it's IAS not ICS - but we'll let you off that one!).

Prospects of VCS chancing their arm at court in the context of airport 'stopping' (as opposed to the more general parking on private land - supermarkets, retail parks etc) can be assessed against past performance - as far as we are aware they have never attempted a 'airport stopping' court case.

The precise reasons for this are, of course, theirs, but placing before a judge an argument that a 20 seconds stop is 'parking' and the fact that it occurred on airport roads covered by Byelaws, meaning that any 'offence' covered by the Byelaws would not be a civil matter, are perhaps just two reasons why they might not be overly keen to 'chance their arm' (or their day) in court.

The worst that's likely to happen is you'll receive a string of (powerless) debt collector letters, and, if you've got as far as post #4 in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, you will already know that these can and must be ignored - they can't do diddly!

Fight_the_good_fight

Though I appreciate an appeal is going to fail I would support appealing for a number of reasons.

Firstly it will cost them time and money

If no one ever bothers appealing on the legal grounds as per POPLA appeals it will prove more difficult to prove their impartiality :rotfl:

The other option is to ignore all debt letters as they can not enforce them but respond to official court papers/ letters

This would be the same position you would be in if you appealed and received the obligatory rejection, ignore all subsequent debt letters and only respond to genuine court letters but at least you could evidence your legal standings from an early position,in the unlikely event they took the matter that far

andy13

According to this thread, VCS have tried in Court.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4514387

exboyracer

Thanks all.

So, I will appeal to IAS regardless of what my perceived chances are, because we have to play by the rules, even if they don't.
Will the proforma POPLA letters suffice, or is there a revised version for IAS complaints?

As a new user it would appear that I am not allowed to post images. As soon as I am able to, for reference I will append redacted copies of the correspondence I have received so far from VCS.

exboyracer

Quoted below is my email to VCS disputing the charge:

Dear Vehicle Control Services

Regarding PCN reference xxxxxxxxx

I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay, or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A) The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.
C) Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers and are not parties of equal bargaining power. Therefore ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not 'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with a red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket'. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).
(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.
(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorised parking. I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). As a decision at small claim level, ParkingEye v Beavis & Wardley would not be binding. There is no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage site map and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at a comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA or the IAS. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to your applicable ATA and the DVLA. A certificate of posting will be obtained for written communications for this appeal and complaint, and I will look to recover my costs when this matter is resolved in my favour.

Yours sincerely

Umkomaas

andy13 wrote: »

According to this thread, VCS have tried in Court.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4514387

Ah, right, thanks for this. I'll need to ensure future comments about VCS/Airport cases read:

as far as we are aware they have [STRIKE]never[/STRIKE] only ever attempted [STRIKE]a[/STRIKE] one 'airport stopping' court case.

Did you get as far as reading later in that thread:

SO THEY VCS HAD THIER DAY IN COURT AND LOST

Let us know if you find another one.

Umkomaas

@OP - you need to change some of the 'parking' references in your appeal to 'stopping'.

The_Deep

This featured on Rjp off Britain yesterday, there was no advice and no suggestions, they really need not have bothered.

esmerobbo

The_Deep wrote: »

This featured on Rjp off Britain yesterday, there was no advice and no suggestions, they really need not have bothered.

Yus about as much use as a chocolate fire-guard!

Guys_Dad

esmerobbo wrote: »

Yus about as much use as a chocolate fire-guard!

But it did point out that VCS pay the airport £25000 per year plus a percentage of the charges to the airport to enable them to scavenge. So your chances of getting a cancellation are not high.