Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Thrugelmir

CLAPTON wrote: »

just can't understand why all those clever scots didn't vote YES last time.

Thanks for your concern but sadly I think I'm in for a double whammy : stay in europe and still have the scots.
probably need a bottle of whisky to get over the first day or so.

Perhaps those who aren't hardcore north of the border. Will think independently and not be forced to follow the whip line.

Shakethedisease

CLAPTON wrote: »

just can't understand why all those clever scots didn't vote YES last time.

Thanks for your concern but sadly I think I'm in for a double whammy : stay in europe and still have the scots.
probably need a bottle of whisky to get over the first day or so.

I guess they weren't ready for it yet. Independence wasn't 'normalised' and talked about like it is today even just 18 months later. A lot of that down to other political parties it has to be said, going on and on about the next referendum and the SNP. Is all they ever talk about. No you can't have one, but lets crap on about the next referendum anyway. It took two goes for a Scottish Parliament/Assembly.

Enjoy your whisky then if it you do get a double whammy ( vile stuff, makes me feel ill just the smell of it ).. But the few weeks just before the referendum are when folks will start waking up and taking notice. It's still a bit too far away yet.

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

London bankers and execs in London are keeping the lights on for every single other region and area in the UK according to 'respected' ( cough see above ) stats. Including most of England. It's becoming a bit of a problem for other regions in terms of meaningful investment and massive brain drain south. Especially also, as it involves that stable and not at all volatile, industry of banking which is looking a tad shaky again.

Whisky is good to have in those UK balance of trade figures aren't they though ? https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/business/scotland-business/838044/there-could-be-a-3-8billion-hole-in-uk-trade-finances-if-it-wasnt-for-whisky/

Might be better in Scotland's. Oil is running out anyway isn't it ? Won't last forever blah blah.. Not that you'd know from the current glut of the stuff but that's what we were told. And whatever happens, politically today was a good move by Sturgeon imho. Everytime she's interviewed or any SNP politician goes anywhere media wise, there are always folks gagging for the SNP either to admit they're not planning another referendum. Or admit they are. Thursday's Question Time was totally dominated by it once again and it gets really boring watching the other three parties heckling and moaning. Referendum, referendum, referendum. Today the SNP admitted they were indeed planning towards one, and so what ? May as well own up to it and go with the flow.

If there's no Brexit then they'll simply and openly consult the Scottish public on what it would take all those soft No's to vote Yes next time. I fully expect that No1 on the list will be 'Johnson or Osborne as next PM'. Not GERS.

ps I don't think referring to half the Scots population as idiots does you any favours.

Of course whisky exports pale into comparison with the really big exporting sectors from London like financial services and media.

London subsidises most of England too. The SE puts a little into the pot and the SW pays its way.

PS Anyone that believes that Scotland's finances would be anything other than a complete mess upon independent withput big changes is an idiot. I don't care what people think about that. If someone is happy to see an independent Scotland in poverty then so be it, that's their choice. If they think it's a land of milk and honey and the English are lying to them then they are indescribably stupid.

elantan

Did anyone say without big changes ? Gers assumes no big changes ... that's part of the reason it's white noise

wotsthat

If/ when the next referendum campaign arrives the separatists will be going for the milk and honey approach. There's no votes in saying there will need to be big changes to stand still.

Generali

wotsthat wrote: »

If/ when the next referendum campaign arrives the separatists will be going for the milk and honey approach. There's no votes in saying there will need to be big changes to stand still.

The way the numbers look at the moment, sranding still wouldn't be an option.

Independence would mean cuts to private incomes and state spending of double digits percents. The only sorts of things that would solve the problem in the state sector would be things like closing the state medical system or stopping paying welfare or cutting state wages by a third or something.

If GERS is even close to being accurate, and I don't see where any really major (think £10 billion) errors could come from. It is very hard to overstate the mess that an independent Scotland would be in. It just sounds like hyperbole. It isn't.

Tromking

Interesting to hear Sturgeon begin the attempt to move the SNP away from Salmond`s now totally discredited 2014 case for iScotland. The difficulty is now dreaming up another case that doesn't involve a thinly-veiled massive leap of faith of course. A good start would have been to begin the process of weening the Scot`s off the Westminster 'bung', but Swinney`s insistence on 'without detriment' devolution means that Scotland is in fact tied ever closer to the UK.

Generali

Tromking wrote: »

Interesting to hear Sturgeon begin the attempt to move the SNP away from Salmond`s now totally discredited 2014 case for iScotland. The difficulty is now dreaming up another case that doesn't involve a thinly-veiled massive leap of faith of course. A good start would have been to begin the process of weening the Scot`s off the Westminster 'bung', but Swinney`s insistence on 'without detriment' devolution means that Scotland is in fact tied ever closer to the UK.

It will be interesting to see how things progress. Independence simply isn't tenable but is the reason the SNP exists.

How does the SNP move from a party of revolution to a party of management without upsetting too many of the 45%?

kabayiri

Generali wrote: »

...
Independence would mean cuts to private incomes and state spending of double digits percents. The only sorts of things that would solve the problem in the state sector would be things like closing the state medical system or stopping paying welfare or cutting state wages by a third or something.
...

Cold Turkey does have its' uses as a method of weaning an addict off addiction though.

Scotland is addicted to debt, just like other parts of the UK. It is clearly more socialist though, and that just adds to the problem.

Perhaps they would be leaner and tougher on the other side.

I'd be an interested observer. I've no axe to grind on Scottish independence either way, and rUK could do with the savings from subsidising the Scottish deficit.

ruggedtoast

Generali wrote: »

Of course whisky exports pale into comparison with the really big exporting sectors from London like financial services and media.

London subsidises most of England too. The SE puts a little into the pot and the SW pays its way.

PS Anyone that believes that Scotland's finances would be anything other than a complete mess upon independent withput big changes is an idiot. I don't care what people think about that. If someone is happy to see an independent Scotland in poverty then so be it, that's their choice. If they think it's a land of milk and honey and the English are lying to them then they are indescribably stupid.

London is "paying its way" based on an economically gerrymandered system run for the benefit of the Finance industry, that is rapidly succeeding in ensuring that 85% of the rest of the country doesn't have any money.

I think this is the point that continues being missed here.

If you are playing poker with someone who has arranged it so that he starts every round with all the aces at his disposal and is the only one who is ever allowed to cash out; just because he buys the drinks and pays for the pizza doesn't mean you want to continue the game with him. Or even play poker at all.

Many people in London are getting by, at best, unless they won the house price lottery, which half of them didn't. A lot of the non wealthy have been forced out.

No one in Scotland, or many places else in the UK, see London as anything other than a problem which is probably not going to get a solution.

It is impossible to convince Scots that they would be worse off without London for the same reason it is impossible to convince an English person working their tail off for £28,000 a year that they are better off with it.