Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

This seems to be a good move:
Householders to receive leaflet explaining new Scottish powers

Note the enthusiasm of the SNP.

Hmmm perhaps SNP and the Scottish electorate are curbing enthusiasm a bit. Mabye articles like this in national newspapers help 'dampen' things down a tad ? And this isn't the only article with this tone to it since Ashcroft started releasing his polls. The hysteria over 20 - 40 Scottish MP's is way OTT. And this article and those like it, not just anti-SNP but anti-Scottish in nature. ( Have I turned into Clapton ??? :eek:)

To borrow the most incendiary saying of all: If Scotland rules England, I can foresee the Thames foaming with much blood...

...We have already seen vile behaviour in the course of the Scottish referendum campaign, with insults flying, open hostility in the streets, and a nationalist mob braying outside the BBC in Glasgow.

...The mood in Scotland remains tense and ugly –

...The price for having the SNP at the heart of government will be high. I don’t believe it is a price that English voters are prepared to pay. The spectre of countryside protest marches is not so far off – nor, more seriously, the shadow of the poll tax anarchy.

...The English bulldog has woken from a long sleep, and is beginning to snarl. The flag of St George is now at least as prominent as the Union Jack.

...To borrow the Roman poet Virgil’s phrase (but intending none of the racist malice Enoch Powell so famously lent it), I don’t say the rivers Thames and Mersey will literally foam with blood – but they might well do so metaphorically.

...For the English regard a government dependent on the SNP as undemocratic and an insult to democracy itself.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2984391/ALLAN-MASSIE-borrow-incendiary-saying-Scotland-rules-England-foresee-Thames-foaming-blood.html

There are ads about these new powers all over facebook and twitter. No-one really believes in them. Or that they won't be watered down even further like the Scotland Act was in it's passage through Westminster, which took years. I know you think I'm telling you things like this because I want to annoy you somehow. But honestly, the Smith Commission has by and large been forgotten about up here, as just about useless. No-one really refers to them anymore. Which is why Jim Murphy wheeled out Gordon Brown to promise even more ( Vow 2 ). Also dismissed as useless almost as soon as the press releases dried.

Most of these leaflets will go straight in the recycle bin. We know if the SNP are voted to Westminster they'll do their best making sure 'new powers' are delivered anyway.. ( though there may be rivers of blood first of course ). A leaflet through the door is unlikely to stop anyone voting for them of the strength of it anyway.

Leanne1812

.string. wrote: »

This seems to be a good move:
Householders to receive leaflet explaining new Scottish powers

Note the enthusiasm of the SNP.

See, I've just read the first sentence and its wound me up. What powers Scotland 'MIGHT' get. How solid is that? Pffft!

Shakethedisease

Leanne1812 wrote: »

In all honesty I have moved on. I'm ok with being part of the Union - I have no option but to be ok with it :-) FWIW I didn't ever deteste the Union, I just felt we could hold our own and that self governance was best. I even thought we'd be better friends with the rest of the UK as there would be no anger or resentment that 'we' were subsiding them or 'they' were subsiding us malarky or we never get the gov we vote for amongst other issues.

If independence were to rear its head again I'd still be a Yes voter though. Even if you think that is bonkers or whatever, I am of the belief that Scotland can hold her own and self governance is best. BUT..... I am accepting of the decision made.

We differ in that you see the SNP as still fighting for independence. I don't. I think they too accept the decision and the focus for them is to try and be good governors for Scotland and try to get the best deal from the Union for its citizens. Is that such a bad thing for your government to do?

They say they won't enter into any coalition or deal making with the tories but will with labour ( on an issue by issue basis ) but you know, if it benefits us all and they try to pull the parties a little more to the left then I'm fine about a deal with whoever is our next UK gov.

It's exciting times for the UK and I believe our referendum has been the catalyst for some good to come for us all.

I wish nothing but peace & goodwill to everyone here even though our viewpoints are wildly different.

I enjoy the debate. It is something I miss from last year so I'm happy to post and have some banter too :-)

I agree. Referendum over. I just wish there wasn't such a hoo-haa about SNP MP's at the moment. Every politics show is working themselves into a frenzy about it. And Labour won't get any real politicing done unless they rule out a deal with the SNP. No-one seems interested in anything else !

Leanne1812

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Hmmm perhaps SNP and the Scottish electorate are curbing enthusiasm a bit. Mabye articles like this in national newspapers help 'dampen' things down a tad ? And this isn't the only article with this tone to it since Ashcroft started releasing his polls. The hysteria over 20 - 40 Scottish MP's is way OTT. And this article and those like it, not just anti-SNP but anti-Scottish in nature. ( Have I turned into Clapton ??? :eek:)


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2984391/ALLAN-MASSIE-borrow-incendiary-saying-Scotland-rules-England-foresee-Thames-foaming-blood.html

There are ads about these new powers all over facebook and twitter. No-one really believes in them. Or that they won't be watered down even further like the Scotland Act was in it's passage through Westminster, which took years. I know you think I'm telling you things like this because I want to annoy you somehow. But honestly, the Smith Commission has by and large been forgotten about up here, as just about useless. No-one really refers to them anymore. Which is why Jim Murphy wheeled out Gordon Brown to promise even more ( Vow 2 ). Also dismissed as useless almost as soon as the press releases dried.

Most of these leaflets will go straight in the recycle bin. We know if the SNP are voted to Westminster they'll do their best making sure 'new powers' are delivered anyway.. ( though there may be rivers of blood first of course ). A leaflet through the door is unlikely to stop anyone voting for them of the strength of it anyway.

What is quite incredible is being part of the Union but we must do as we're told. Don't try to get above ourselves. It's as if we vote SNP because we think they are good for Scotland that we must be deliberately trying to aggravate the rest of the UK.

Generali

Leanne1812 wrote: »

What is quite incredible is being part of the Union but we must do as we're told. Don't try to get above ourselves. It's as if we vote SNP because we think they are good for Scotland that we must be deliberately trying to aggravate the rest of the UK.

Funnily enough, most English people manage to go through their lives thinking of Scotland rarely if at all.

.string.

I think the Daily Mail is a good comic, but no way a newspaper to take seriously. In that it gives the news in a provocative way it can make you think but, well, not much else to say about it really except that, unfortunately some probably think the Sun shines out of its pages (no pun intended) so in that respect it can shape some opinions.

When I've written that I don't think that FFA/Dev Max is consistent with a Union I have meant that quite seriously, not as a debating ploy. So I would be astonished if anything further can be given because there must be enough money to pay for Central Union Government activity. It can well be argued that to do anything else democratically reflects the will not only of the UK as a whole but also the Scottish people even if it were not to the liking of the 45% who may well vote for the SNP at the GE.

Not I think a time for popcorn and enjoyment of chaos but instead a worrying time for us all.

.string.

Leanne1812 wrote: »

See, I've just read the first sentence and its wound me up. What powers Scotland 'MIGHT' get. How solid is that? Pffft!

It can't say will because it has not been debated, voted on and passed into law and a leaflet cannot dictate a Bill to be passed through Parliament. I don't think for a moment there is anything sinister in that word "might".

Leanne1812

.string. wrote: »

It can't say will because it has not been debated, voted on and passed into law and a leaflet cannot dictate a Bill to be passed through Parliament. I don't think for a moment there is anything sinister in that word "might".

And nor will it until after the election. Do you think that will instill confidence? Really, anything could happen depending on what the next gov decide. It's all just a bit vague isn't it?

Leanne1812

Generali wrote: »

Funnily enough, most English people manage to go through their lives thinking of Scotland rarely if at all.

Obviously you aren't one of those people.

Scotland seems to be in your thoughts quite regularly, at least a few times a day ;-)

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

I think the Daily Mail is a good comic, but no way a newspaper to take seriously. In that it gives the news in a provocative way it can make you think but, well, not much else to say about it really except that, unfortunately some probably think the Sun shines out of its pages (no pun intended) so in that respect it can shape some opinions.

When I've written that I don't think that FFA/Dev Max is consistent with a Union I have meant that quite seriously, not as a debating ploy. So I would be astonished if anything further can be given because there must be enough money to pay for Central Union Government activity. It can well be argued that to do anything else democratically reflects the will not only of the UK as a whole but also the Scottish people even if it were not to the liking of the 45% who may well vote for the SNP at the GE.

Not I think a time for popcorn and enjoyment of chaos but instead a worrying time for us all.

I'm not really sure what you think can be done ? The SNP aren't going anywhere, and are likely to be returned to Westminster in greater numbers than ever before. These are just facts ( based on current predictions, it may change). Denying basic UK democracy for any person in the UK, to have a voice through their chosen MP, from whichever party isn't a palatable thought for anyone ( or at least it shouldn't be ).

Just like 1.6 million Yes voters had to get over the No result and deal with it. So too will Westminster have to deal with the fact that Scotland doesn't vote Labour anymore.

It's hardly Scotland's fault that the two main parties can't muster a majority between them anymore either. Because if either of them could, there wouldn't be any such hysteria about the SNP at the moment. But telling folks just not to vote SNP, that they're stupid to do so ( see Hamish's IQ reference ) or to put their own beliefs aside in order that Scottish Labour MP's and the status quo are returned to 'normal' isn't really democracy either.

If there are riots on the streets on the basis of 30 or 40 SNP MP's being returned in May. Or Labour/Tories unite in order to keep them out. Then I sincerely doubt that the union is very strong to start with anyway.