Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

So how does what you've said above , fit with your comments on a 2017 EU opt out decision affecting state of play for another referendum? Or am I missing something here? I'm asking seems as how you're giving me the impression now of being a single posting voice for a collective body on here.

I'm well aware Salmonds been playing the long game his entire life and of his tactics and manoeuvrings within the party to achieve his ambition. Been around longer than him, and have watched him carefully mould his persona and policies to suit.

He's hardly unique among politicians doing that now is he ? You stated 'how much time left for another referendum' in reference to Nicola falling from grace under the weight of new members and supporters all to keep happy.

I simply pointed out an independence referendum anytime soon would likely not be on the cards. However, a devo-max-esque type one may be. It's a popular option, across the entire Scots electorate ( regardless of which party they support ).. and it's almost universally recognised that had it been on the ballot paper that it would have won. I can't really see any reason why the SNP wouldn't want to play this card at some point, and relatively soon given their current momentum and their prospects at Holyrood next year.

An in/out EU referendum will only happen if a Conservative majority govt takes office in May. This now looks extremely unlikely.

And what are you now - the state police? As if. Lol. Get a grip woman, we're not a single party state yet, thankfully.

Insults demean you and your arguments. Again, try to stick to content rather than personalising the debate. It's boring for all concerned. 'Get a grip woman' sounds a bit 1970's chauvinistic for me.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

So say you want to increase Scottish tax by roughly 15% of GDP to balance the books, which means in effect every payer of tax has to pay more of it, companies, individuals, etc.

In the example above of Wetherspoons, lets also say you accept it is reasonable for a big company to make 4% of turnover as profit, then Wetherspoons has no option but to increase their prices...... by a lot.

Which brings us right back to my point.

Companies don't pay tax, consumers do.

Nah George Osborne is going to do as DavidF says... or at least try and look like he is..

GEORGE OSBORNE will use his budget to offer an income tax giveaway for 27m voters and a “Google tax” crackdown against multinationals that avoid tax in Britain.
The Tories and Liberal Democrats are finalising a deal that would raise the level at which people start paying income tax “towards £11,000” a year from April, in a bid to win over workers on modest incomes.
The move, a centrepiece of the budget on March 18, is designed to put between £160 and £200 in voters’ pockets ahead of the general election, boosting the chances of both coalition parties as the formal campaign kicks off.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1528602.ece

The “Google Tax” of 25% will be higher than the usual 20% corporate tax levied in the UK, and it is expected to be applied only to companies whose annual revenues are more than £250 million ($376 million).


Notably, the Sunday Times writes that the tax will be coupled with much stricter corporate reporting requirements. Among them, companies like Amazon, Facebook and Google will be required disclose revenue and profit figures on a country-by-country basis.
This, in turn, would give tax authorities a clearer picture of just how much money a company earns in each market. Matching that up with other metrics like how many people are employed in each country in turn will help paint a clearer picture of a company’s operations in the country. As the Sunday Times describes it, despite having thousands of employees and business operations in a country like the UK,

http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/08/uk-readies-25-google-tax-on-tech-giants-diverted-profits/

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Nah George Osborne is going to do as DavidF says... or at least try and look like he is..

Sure, he'll try to look like he is, and it still won't make a blind bit of difference to the overall tax take.

It's shuffling deckchairs around on the Titanic.

Massive cuts to spending are required to balance the books in both the UK and Scotland, but the difference is that the UK is running a deficit that is sufficiently small in % of GDP terms to be covered by borrowing, Scotland if it were independent today would not be.

I'll ask again, can any of you name one country that is able to borrow to cover a 15% of GDP deficit at anything like affordable, let alone record low, interest rates?

Just one will do.....

And if raising more tax is the solution, then please name one country that has sustainably been able to run a tax take of more than 50% of GDP, let alone the 65% Scotland would need this year. (Hint - the current highest is Zimbabwe, at 49%)

Again, just one example would do.....

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Sure, he'll try to look like he is, and it still won't make a blind bit of difference to the overall tax take.

It's shuffling deckchairs around on the Titanic.

Massive cuts to spending are required to balance the books in both the UK and Scotland, but the difference is that the UK is running a deficit that is sufficiently small in % of GDP terms to be covered by borrowing, Scotland if it were independent today would not be.

I'm not convinced. I think the UK is most probably in a slighty worse state financially than Scotland would be. Not to say that Scotland wouldn't have problems of it's own of course. But the absolute desperation to hang onto Scotland whatever they had to do, say, threaten, lovebomb, bankroll, vow or leap into limo's and helicopters and hightail it up here when the polls looked like turning... for an economic basketcase ? A drain on the UK ? For the feel good union factor ? For the Scots own good ? Am still not buying it. From Labour/Lib Dems yes ( votes ) for the Tories ? Could only be money.

But the referendum result was a No. So there's no point talking 'what if's'.. not right now anyway.

I'll ask again, can any of you name one country that is able to borrow to cover a 15% of GDP deficit at anything like affordable, let alone record low, interest rates?

Just one will do.....

And if raising more tax is the solution, then please name one country that has sustainably been able to run a tax take of more than 50% of GDP, let alone the 65% Scotland would need this year. (Hint - the current highest is Zimbabwe, at 49%)

Again, just one example would do.....

Why ? You seem to have came to the conclusion that the UK and/or Scotland is doomed anyway, whoever gets into power in May. Or whatever Osborne does in his budget re tax take.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

I'll ask again, can any of you name one country that is able to borrow to cover a 15% of GDP deficit at anything like affordable, let alone record low, interest rates?

Just one will do.....

And if raising more tax is the solution, then please name one country that has sustainably been able to run a tax take of more than 50% of GDP, let alone the 65% Scotland would need this year. (Hint - the current highest is Zimbabwe, at 49%)

Again, just one example would do.....

Why ?

To give your the argument some credibility of course

Leanne1812

Hamish,

Why are you talking about a hypothetical situation as if it is real?

There was a no vote remember?....... There shouldn't be any more fear from you about another referendum as its over for at least a generation remember?.........

The situation we face now is who will be the next PM and will the SNP be sending a large contingent of MP's to westminster.

If this scenario plays out and the SNP hold any power then I'd quite like to see some ideas about reform of our system which clearly isn't working for some in our family of nations. I'm not talking about throwing more money at benefits recipients but investment & job creation giving more citizens a better standard of living. Can you get that? Can you see past what the system is now and open your mind to the suggestion that things should change to benefit more people and reduce inequality? Surely a system where people work and cannot manage to survive tells us something isn't working.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Hamish,

Why are you talking about a hypothetical situation as if it is real?

Because you separatists damn near drove Scotland off a cliff.

And that should never be forgotten.

Had you succeeded in conning just a few percent more people to vote yes we'd be heading for economic catastrophe and social collapse now, and every single one of you should be reflecting deeply on how close we were to disaster.

Seriously, you remind me of a toddler whose parents grab him just before running out in front of a train, only for him to giggle hysterically.

The situation we face now is who will be the next PM and will the SNP be sending a large contingent of MP's to westminster.

If the SNP send a large contingent to Westminster then the answer is Cameron.

If this scenario plays out and the SNP hold any power then I'd quite like to see some ideas about reform of our system which clearly isn't working for some in our family of nations. I'm not talking about throwing more money at benefits recipients but investment & job creation giving more citizens a better standard of living. Can you get that? Can you see past what the system is now and open your mind to the suggestion that things should change to benefit more people and reduce inequality? Surely a system where people work and cannot manage to survive tells us something isn't working.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.

More jobs have been created in Scotland in the last few years of Tory led government than have been in the socialist and 15 times bigger France during that time.

CLAPTON

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Hamish,

Why are you talking about a hypothetical situation as if it is real?

There was a no vote remember?....... There shouldn't be any more fear from you about another referendum as its over for at least a generation remember?.........

The situation we face now is who will be the next PM and will the SNP be sending a large contingent of MP's to westminster.

If this scenario plays out and the SNP hold any power then I'd quite like to see some ideas about reform of our system which clearly isn't working for some in our family of nations. I'm not talking about throwing more money at benefits recipients but investment & job creation giving more citizens a better standard of living. Can you get that? Can you see past what the system is now and open your mind to the suggestion that things should change to benefit more people and reduce inequality? Surely a system where people work and cannot manage to survive tells us something isn't working.

what changes do you want to see?

more borrowing?
higher taxes?
all the peoples of the UK more than survive
why can't Scotland invest in jobs and subsidise jobs now?
how do you want to reduce inequality: higher taxes on the rich; higher taxes on businesses?
won't the greater powers promised allow you to do most of these things?

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

To give your argument some credibility of course

He wasn't debating with me over tax take if you care to look back. Don't be so quick to jump.. Hamish and I have locked horns over this sort of thing many a time for the last few years. We'll never agree, so I just don't bother.

However, the Osborne article today over tax take was relevant to what himself and DavidF were debating, so I posted it for interest.

Shakethedisease

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Because you separatists damn near drove Scotland off a cliff.

And that should never be forgotten.

Had you succeeded in conning just a few percent more people to vote yes we'd be heading for economic catastrophe and social collapse now, and every single one of you should be reflecting deeply on how close we were to disaster.

Seriously, you remind me of a toddler whose parents grab him just before running out in front of a train, only for him to giggle hysterically.

There's a lot of people, and economists, don't agree with you.

If the SNP send a large contingent to Westminster then the answer is Cameron.

Cameron will get in if England votes for him, not if Scotland doesn't.

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend.

More jobs have been created in Scotland in the last few years of Tory led government than have been in the socialist and 15 times bigger France during that time.

A lot of those jobs are crappy ones. Which is why the tax take is so poor UK wide. There's a balance to be had there somewhere. The Tories seem to have missed it, by some margin. A lot of these jobs are propped up by tax credits, housing benefit and other benefits just to keep people afloat.