Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

Tromking

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Further powers within the union will do just fine.

On that we can agree.
The British constitutional model is now totally fubar and despite the Westminster elite desperately trying and failing to make it fit, if the people of the UK want to stay together then a truly federal UK is the only solution.
Whisper it quietly, but I find myself pretty much in agreement with elantan's views on Westminster, I just hope the clowns who reside there realise that rather than trying to preserve the pre-eminent position of Westminster they need to devolve power to all the constituent nations of the UK including England.

.string.

The issue is very easy. An example regarding Scottish MPs:

Adapting what is currently proposed by the Tories,

all MPs vote on everything, but an English MP veto applies to every issue on which the English MPs are not allowed to vote on in Scotland.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

The issue is very easy. An example regarding Scottish MPs:

Adapting what is currently proposed by the Tories,

all MPs vote on everything, but an English MP veto applies to every issue on which the English MPs are not allowed to vote on in Scotland.

Issues such as ? And do make sure you take funding into account.

Oh and make sure your list is quite small, otherwise you might inadvertently find yourself joyfully and extensively listing a full Devo-Max agenda. And we can't have that can we...

.string.

Tromking wrote: »

On that we can agree.
The British constitutional model is now totally fubar and despite the Westminster elite desperately trying and failing to make it fit, if the people of the UK want to stay together then a truly federal UK is the only solution.
Whisper it quietly, but I find myself pretty much in agreement with elantan's views on Westminster, I just hope the clowns who reside there realise that rather than trying to preserve the pre-eminent position of Westminster they need to devolve power to all the constituent nations of the UK including England.

This is already proposed, what the SNP are trying for is Devolution beyond the point of Federalism.

I lived in Canada for some years where I paid both Federal and Provincial taxes, the former paying for common and shared services. Without that sharing there is no overall country and that is why FFA is a no-go.

.string.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Issues such as ? And do make sure you take funding into account.

Oh and make sure your list is quite small, otherwise you might inadvertently find yourself joyfully and extensively listing a full Devo-Max agenda. And we can't have that can we...

You need a logic re-boot, Shakey.

Tromking

.string. wrote: »

This is already proposed, what the SNP are trying for is Devolution beyond the point of Federalism.

I lived in Canada for some years where I paid both Federal and Provincial taxes, the former paying for common and shared services. Without that sharing there is no overall country and that is why FFA is a no-go.

I've seen no such proposal.
A federal UK to me would include a new English parliament and three other national parliaments with a small federal assembly on top.

elantan

Tromking wrote: »

That's an interesting yet irrelevant distinction you make there.
The Scottish people voted by a clear majority to remain British, get over it.

This was in reference to the previous posts ... Do keep up old chap

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

You need a logic re-boot, Shakey.

And you need to wake up and smell the coffee.

EVEL has very little to do with the SNP. It's a Tory attempt to 1) Claw back voters from UKIP and 2 ) Make sure that Labour can never use the votes of their Scottish MP's, which for the last few decades has been a fair proportion of their MP's.

In short, if the Tories win more seats in England/Wales than Labour do.. But Labour have an overall majority. If Scottish MP's cannot vote on bills, then any Labour govt will be severely handicapped in what it can and cannot pass. The SNP has only very, very recently come into play in this one. Tories have had some form of it in their manifesto's for a long time, probably since their wipe-out in Scotland back in 1997. They have nothing to lose there barring their current ONE MP from voting on anything.

This as elantan has patiently tried to point out to you already. Is the true aim of EVEL. It has had nothing previously to do with the SNP until the first polls came out putting them ahead only a few months ago.

Both SNP and Labour MP's ( and Lib Dems ) routinely vote on issues that affect the Barnett Formula and funding for their own constituents. Only Labour and Lib Dem MP's have taken that a step further, block voting as a party regardless of if it's effects and if it's truly English or not. You'd do well to redirect your ire for this one, as it's unfounded.

elantan

What shake said ... Stop looking for SNP trolls where none exist ...
Believe me I don't let them away with anything ... But as for EVEL your barking up the wrong tree

I'm loving how the SNP must be scaring everyone ... Right up wee Eck's street, he is gonna have a ball come May,

elantan

This conversation has went round and round the houses