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Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies
Comments
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How will Scottish residents be better off with independence? How will the SNP make Scotland richer?
Why the SNP ? This is about self-governance and a Scottish parliament with full powers.
You may as well ask why are UK residents be better off with independence rather than being run from France and getting a block grant each year ? Answer the question to that, and you have your answer to Scottish independence. Future economics are unknowns. And there's no point pretending that they are known.
Some people just feel that the natural state for any country, is one where they look after their own affairs. Come what may. The Union is more than likely past it's sell by date. UK politics are diverging, the Tories are getting voted in more often than not in England, the SNP's rise in Scotland shows no signs of abating, and Labour's only hope in either is to spilt to accommodate two separate sets of voters looking for different things.It all seems so stupid it makes me want to give up.
But why should I give up, when it all seems so stupid ?0 -
Shakethedisease wrote: »Why the SNP ? This is about self-governance and a Scottish parliament with full powers.
You may as well ask why are UK residents be better off with independence rather than being run from France and getting a block grant each year ? Answer the question to that, and you have your answer to Scottish independence. Future economics are unknowns. And there's no point pretending that they are known.
Some people just feel that the natural state for any country, is one where they look after their own affairs. Come what may. The Union is more than likely past it's sell by date. UK politics are diverging, the Tories are getting voted in more often than not in England, the SNP's rise in Scotland shows no signs of abating, and Labour's only hope in either is to spilt to accommodate two separate sets of voters looking for different things.
I agree 100%, we have the SNP for now but it won't always be them in power.
My post may sound like my support has waned. It hasn't, I think I have just blocked it out a little as the crushing disappointment was sore for all of us :-(
The more our politics diverge the more unstable the union becomes.
I do think independence is a natural progression for us. It's just how far away that's unknown.0 -
Shakethedisease wrote: »Why the SNP ? This is about self-governance and a Scottish parliament with full powers.
You may as well ask why are UK residents be better off with independence rather than being run from France and getting a block grant each year ? Answer the question to that, and you have your answer to Scottish independence. Future economics are unknowns. And there's no point pretending that they are known.
Some people just feel that the natural state for any country, is one where they look after their own affairs. Come what may. The Union is more than likely past it's sell by date. UK politics are diverging, the Tories are getting voted in more often than not in England, the SNP's rise in Scotland shows no signs of abating, and Labour's only hope in either is to spilt to accommodate two separate sets of voters looking for different things.
Fair enough, although I'm not sure 'self governance' is possible if you are part of the EU.
But anyway, to many Scots independence is obviously more important than mere money. Bearing that in mind, how much would those wanting independence be prepared to lose.
Can any of you put a figure on it? Would you accept a 10% fall in living standards, maybe 20%? Or even more?
How much is it worth to be free of Westminster?If I don't reply to your post,
you're probably on my ignore list.0 -
Leanne1812 wrote: »I agree 100%, we have the SNP for now but it won't always be them in power.
My post may sound like my support has waned. It hasn't, I think I have just blocked it out a little as the crushing disappointment was sore for all of us :-(
The more our politics diverge the more unstable the union becomes.
I do think independence is a natural progression for us. It's just how far away that's unknown.
No, the SNP will not always be in power and the 'popular ' policies in scotland will change too.
At the moment scotland seems to favour massive subsidies for rich parents and rich graduates at the expense of the poor :
they support income levels for part time coffee waiters at the same level as junior doctors
but these things are transient: when scotland pays the bills them selves they will have different priorities and policies
there is no natural progressions to independence (except for the converted)
who knows, in ten years there may be a profligate left wing party in power in england and a prudent right wing party in scotland0 -
Fair enough, although I'm not sure 'self governance' is possible if you are part of the EU.
But anyway, to many Scots independence is obviously more important than mere money. Bearing that in mind, how much would those wanting independence be prepared to lose.
Can any of you put a figure on it? Would you accept a 10% fall in living standards, maybe 20%? Or even more?
How much is it worth to be free of Westminster?
That is the million smackeroonie ( our currency when independent) question.
As far as the EU goes I think the majority of scots want to stay in. I do too at the moment but I will research more when it is set and we have a timeframe. I see benefits economically and with immigration.
Most people I came into contact with last year felt times could be tough and were prepared to pay to weather the storm. We would have to take responsibility as we'd voted for it. I think we'd have seen our nation pull together and contribute to make a successful country.
Cue No voters saying they didn't and wouldn't. That was what was special about the Yes campaign, we were a collective people hoping for change in a positive way for all of Scotland. Yes was an opportunity for change, No was the status quo.
You may say this is a mad pipe dream, airy fairy nonsense or economically crazy but it was a choice and for every scare story there was a counter so it boiled down to who do you trust. That is the crux.0 -
Leanne1812 wrote: »That is the million smackeroonie ( our currency when independent
) question.
As far as the EU goes I think the majority of scots want to stay in. I do too at the moment but I will research more when it is set and we have a timeframe. I see benefits economically and with immigration.
Most people I came into contact with last year felt times could be tough and were prepared to pay to weather the storm. We would have to take responsibility as we'd voted for it. I think we'd have seen our nation pull together and contribute to make a successful country.
Cue No voters saying they didn't and wouldn't. That was what was special about the Yes campaign, we were a collective people hoping for change in a positive way for all of Scotland. Yes was an opportunity for change, No was the status quo.
You may say this is a mad pipe dream, airy fairy nonsense or economically crazy but it was a choice and for every scare story there was a counter so it boiled down to who do you trust. That is the crux.
I agree with what you say except to make the point that your arguments led to a specious conclusion that the choice was between Scotland being run from Westminster and trusting the Scottish people.
The choice was between trusting the Scottish people and trusting the British people.
The other thing is that if the numbers are even close to being correct, gaining 18% of GDP back is going to be neither trivial nor fast. That is a multi-decade process if it can be done at all. Maybe it could have been done in 1979 when Scotland still had a lot of oil that could be gotten out of the ground economically. That ship has sailed.0 -
I agree with what you say except to make the point that your arguments led to a specious conclusion that the choice was between Scotland being run from Westminster and trusting the Scottish people.
The choice was between trusting the Scottish people and trusting the British people.
The other thing is that if the numbers are even close to being correct, gaining 18% of GDP back is going to be neither trivial nor fast. That is a multi-decade process if it can be done at all. Maybe it could have been done in 1979 when Scotland still had a lot of oil that could be gotten out of the ground economically. That ship has sailed.
Gen, you perhaps know I'm married to an Englishman ( fellow Yes voter) This was about breaking a political union, one that some of us feel is past its sell by date. I couldn't stress that enough.
I sincerely felt we could set the bar and become a more equal society, one that our neighbours would take a leaf from and say 'we'd like some of that' So, in turn I felt it would benefit all of the U.K. There's nothing that would have made me happier. I really feel, possibly include yourself here, people felt a personal insult that we'd want to leave you. It was about us taking a leap and hoping others would follow suit. Sincerely, I mean that.
When I look at Westminster and its traditions and etiquette I feel it needs to reform. I feel resentment about Scotland's representatives being ostracised. I'm not expecting them to have lots of say or power but it appears they are largely shunned as the 'separatists'. Where does that leave Scotland?
I know the oil situation is bad news but again, I am optimistic. We are a resource rich nation with a diverse economy, add to that the will,positivity & aims of the people and we are sorted. I say that lightly but look at our resources compared to other small nations and I don't think for a minute we'd be on our knees.0 -
I agree with what you say except to make the point that your arguments led to a specious conclusion that the choice was between Scotland being run from Westminster and trusting the Scottish people.
The choice was between trusting the Scottish people and trusting the British people.
The other thing is that if the numbers are even close to being correct, gaining 18% of GDP back is going to be neither trivial nor fast. That is a multi-decade process if it can be done at all. Maybe it could have been done in 1979 when Scotland still had a lot of oil that could be gotten out of the ground economically. That ship has sailed.
No it was a choice between being run from WM or HR ... HR everytime we vote as a country we get the government the majority want ... WM we are not guaranteed to get the government we want ... simples.0 -
Husband and I reckoned we would take a hit of approx 50k house value ... we thought that a price worth paying ...0
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We also reckoned we would've taken a cut in wages and pension ... again we thought it acceptable
Were better off financially under the Tories .... much better off compared to under Labour ... but that didn't matter either0
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