Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

You know what string ... whatever .... no one here will convince so I've given up trying ... keep that wee knotted ball of hate in yer stomach and let it fester for all I care

is that the same wee knotted ball of hate you
reserve for an inanimate UK flag?
or the people of scotland and glascow that run a huge and very profitable slave trade?
or the Scots that invaded, raped, murdered and stole the fertile land of north east Ireland from the catholic irish under the leadership of James 1st?

skintmacflint

Leanne1812 wrote: »

I'm really not sure what you want me to explain. Perhaps we just see the article through our own 'biased' eyes.

All I read was independence at any cost whether it was the (allegedly) MP or the FM. Nothing new there, articles like this are 10 a penny by unionists. Shock! Horror! The SNP want independence :rotfl:

Fair enough Leanne. You roll on the floor laughing to your hearts content. So you obviously feel the SNP constitution, as it stands , and the alleged MP don't mean Independence 'at any cost'. Which implies you think there are circumstances or costs which would be too high.

So at what cost or hardship to the Scottish people, or under what circumstances do you think Nicola Sturgeon and the SNP would draw a line at accepting a successful Yes vote for Independence?

zagubov

.string. wrote: »

@zagubov - the EU is not a country so the analogy is not correct. But for a flag of a country, the answer is, essentially, yes; hate might indeed be the word because despise is a very strong word itself. Despising a flag is not a simple statement of disliking the colour scheme it is despising the country that it represents, a country that consists of people who, by their system of government have the ultimate responsibility for how their government behave.

True it's not a country now, but I wonder about what we'll say about it in the future. From time to time countries arise from unions of pre-existing ones. Our own comes to mind as an example.

Hatred holds no rightful place in the modern world. All people of goodwill know this.

I'm sure I'm not being presumptuous in assuming that all in this thread agree with that.

elantan

@Gordos101 my friend how does one define "liberal"? Then I ask can't a middle class Englishman not despise the wretched Scottish?


Aye right enough the hatred is all one way ... lol

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

@Gordos101 my friend how does one define "liberal"? Then I ask can't a middle class Englishman not despise the wretched Scottish?


Aye right enough the hatred is all one way ... lol

well, hating a piece of cloth is a bit weird

skintmacflint

elantan wrote: »

Again with your hatred of the English ... where has Sturgeon or Salmond ever stated they hate the English ?

Salmond in his earlier political days before he grew up, wasn't averse to throwing the word English about , or even 'anglicised ' in one of his fairly recent quips.

1987 speech

'Our objective is to break the power of English Toryism over the Scottish people and in the next parliament, that's what we intend to do. '

Salmond equating Tory and Tory governments with the English for many years, hasn't helped. Conveniently forgot Scotland still has thousands of conservative voters even now.

SNP as an allegedly positive thinking party, had the chance to be different as they grew and gained success? An opportunity to end the grudge and grievance politics, we endured up here for decades. Instead they jumped on a successful bandwagon and ramped it up a gear.

Shakethedisease

skintmacflint wrote: »

Salmond in his earlier political days before he grew up, wasn't averse to throwing the word English about , or even 'anglicised ' in one of his fairly recent quips.

1987 speech

'Our objective is to break the power of English Toryism over the Scottish people and in the next parliament, that's what we intend to do. '

In 1987 the Tories had been in power in the UK for 8 years. So it was English Toryism. And the Scottish Labour party were pushing exactly the same narrative. Only on a bigger platform. You're being selective.

Salmond equating Tory and Tory governments with the English for many years, hasn't helped. Conveniently forgot Scotland still has thousands of conservative voters even now.

But only enough to have 1 MP out of 59 and that's been the situation more or less for nearly two decades now. Again, he was right. If the Conservatives win power, it's almost certainly English voters that put them there. And that's fine. However, it is rather a problem when one of the constituent nations of the UK, never vote for them.. or at least, not in enough numbers to gain more than, well 1 MP. Labour starting to look and sound much the same didn't help matters. They paid the price for that in May.

SNP as an allegedly positive thinking party, had the chance to be different as they grew and gained success? An opportunity to end the grudge and grievance politics, we endured up here for decades. Instead they jumped on a successful bandwagon and ramped it up a gear.

I think you're perhaps a little worried to be honest. And like in many other outlets, it's the anti-SNP stuff that's starting to ramp up a gear again. I don't know if elantan and Leanne will agree with me there, but I can see it. They'll have to be stopped winning a majority in May. At all costs.

Imo people such as yourself are scared they'll win again like they did in 2011. Bide their time, and call another referendum. Only unlike 2011, a Yes win isn't something only to be worried about for the last 2 weeks of the campaign. Next time instead of starting off at 25% support.. they'll be firing the gun at 45-50% support.

What you might call 'grievance and risk' politics others might call 'opportunity and change'. And at the end of the day, the SNP have independence as one of their cornerstone policies. It's why they were founded after all. Can hardly be much of a surprise to you that they haven't given up on it just yet.

Shakethedisease

Oops forgot this..

In the 1980s the main Scottish opposition parties – Labour, Lib Dem and SNP – increasingly coalesced around a pro-home rule, centre-left, anti-Tory agenda which marginalised the Conservatives. This associated the opposition parties with being "Scottish" and defending Scottish interests, and the Conservatives as "anti-Scottish", questioning the legitimacy of a UK mandate to govern Scotland on a minority of votes.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/may/19/scotland-anti-tory-mantras

Happygreen

black_taxi wrote: »

Norway managing fine without record oil prices

They managed to invest a lot of their oil revenue in renewables.

baldelectrician

Mistermeaner wrote: »

You'll have to explain that in more detail - why does scotland get more of each unit of oil if it independent?

Could you also detail the long term future of the fields to the east of Scotland vs those to the east of England and explain why the owner of the grangemouth refinery just bought the rights to gas and oil fields in the English waters?
No

The dark blue shaded bit is Scotland's territorial waters (as defined by fishing rights), 90% of the current oil fields in UK waters are in Scotland's geographical area.

The lighter blue shaded area on the map shows the rest of the UK continental shelf.


The map clearly shows the areas of oil to the east coast of Scotland- what is more noticeable is the area to the west- only 30% of Scotland's reserves are in the east. There is much oil (and gas) off the west yet untouched.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/2c4bnc/oil_and_gas_reserves_off_the_west_coast/