Salmond and Sturgeon Want the English Fish for More Fat Subsidies

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

I don't know if there is a sense of civic nationalism in England. I recognise that there is an unease about how patriotism can be expressed here that I'm not sure happens anywhere else.

I think that one of the differences between England and Scotland is that north of the Tweed, patriotism is seem as a positive attribute that can be celebrated, but that south of the Tweed it's seen almost as a character flaw.

The only nationalist parties I see here are genuinely nationalist, in an ethnic sense and based on hatred of other countries rather than love of England. I'm therefore not surprised by any negative attitudes about the SNP or the concept of Scottish "nationalism" that I encounter here.

Neither is morally superior.

can i assume you are not being ironic?

black_taxi_2

Might be wrong here--but as England is the by far the largest country in The Union


You don't see the diff between British/English?

elantan

I feel a lot of sympathy for English people, I would love to see an English national party that looked after the needs of those from England but welcomed others like the SNP do... but I've noticed that when people talk about the English flag it's seen as a symbol of hatred of others ( now obviously I don't know everyone so can only speak from my own experience here ) ... I don't know any Scottish that hate the English flag in fact in my town a few fly it ... but when I go down south it is treated with derersion and disrespect as if it's something to be ashamed of
... connected to the BNP or something ... and that's a shame tbh ... it would be wonderful if England had a real alternative to Tory and Labour that stood up for the rights of their electorate... it would be wonderful to see civic pride like we see here instead of people being ashamed of their culture like I do see ( again ... personal experience here)

I think Zabugov has possibly hit the nail on the head and helpede understand more why so many people are afraid of the SNP and feel they are anti English ... that's a lot of the experience people have with the English equivalent


But it's not like that here ... and it's a shame some people are so blinded by fear and hatred that they can't see it for themselves

elantan

Ps I will admit that when I see the British flag I get a knot in my stomach ... I think of slaves and illegal wars and occupations of countries like India when I see that flag

I like the English flag though ... and the Scottish Irish and Welsh flags ... but the British flag repulses me ... it's the same feeling I get when I see a confederate flag tbh

skintmacflint

Leanne1812 wrote: »

Could have said something like Independence is the goal when the time is right. If and when support shows the Scottish people want it then it will be on the agenda. I really find it quite incredible that this conversation occurred. The fact that a high profile unionist said it makes it even more unbelievable. Name him/her and let them defend this and it might just be credible.

Well ask him for his reasons in not naming the MP, and see where it goes if that is your main or only problem with the article?

For me his article makes the same point with or without this conversation with an SNP member. Which is possibly why IMO I see no advantage for him to attract even more abuse than he already gets , by fabricating this conversation. Maybe he should just have left it out altogether, would have still agreed with him.

Neither can I work out how that new soundbite from Sturgeon you kindly quoted makes what the MP is alleged to have replied to Hague's question , makes any difference to the content of his article. Or the impression readers might have of the individual MP

You'll have to explain it to me?

zagubov

There is an immense range of achievements to be proud of in England, from literature to music to science. But celebrating them seems to be unfashionable, which is disappointing.

I posted a list of reasons why we should be proud of this country on another thread, and many people agreed with it. I didn't name which country I was describing but you can work it out.
It was this:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64389268&postcount=23

CLAPTON

elantan wrote: »

Ps I will admit that when I see the British flag I get a knot in my stomach ... I think of slaves and illegal wars and occupations of countries like India when I see that flag

I like the English flag though ... and the Scottish Irish and Welsh flags ... but the British flag repulses me ... it's the same feeling I get when I see a confederate flag tbh

I don't see the flags but the people

I see the people of England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland and others that were slave traders, occupiers of India etc.

Presumably such information is suppressed in Scotland.

Goebbels eat your heart out.

skintmacflint

Leanne1812 wrote: »

They've been in power for 8 years and likely to be so again next year. Surely if they were so disastrous they'd be toast?

Think that justification has been ably dispelled by Shake when she spoke of how Labour were the main party in Scotland for decades up here, before being ousted. Despite the fact with few exceptions, the best were reserved for sending to Westminster, while SNP could sharpen their craft with their best.

8 years isn't that long compared to 40. Particularly when handed a nice generous budget, with only devolved issues to be responsible for. Any hard decisions on welfare and defence, which voters don't like can always be blamed on Westminster. Nice win win situation for SNP.

elantan

zagubov wrote: »

There is an immense range of achievements to be proud of in England, from literature to music to science. But celebrating them seems to be unfashionable, which is disappointing.

I posted a list of reasons why we should be proud of this country on another thread, and many people agreed with it. I didn't name which country I was describing but you can work it out.
It was this:
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64389268&postcount=23

Have to admit I am a HUGE Shakespere fan ... try and watch Atleast two of his plays a year ..
And preferably by a travelling group ... I like the " Lord Chamberlains men " the best

Yes England like Scotland has much to be proud of

Shakethedisease

Hague's figs are causing amusement on Twitter tonight. Have you followed it Skinmacflint ? Andrew Neil must be sloshed. He's actually trolling Wings.

Andrew Neil Verified account ‏@afneil @WingsScotland Still clinging to the !!!!!!!! by little WingsTroll over Bath?

Wings Over S******d ‏@WingsScotland 2h2 hours ago .@afneil Just so we're clear, Andrew - is it your contention that Scotland alone has totally escaped five years of austerity

Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 2h2 hours ago @WingsScotland Good Q. Nope. Del is down. But overall is flat in real terms

So Campbell was right after all. Neil was on about money the Scottish Govt don't control or can divert elsewhere. Scottish Govt has had a 10% cut in it's own spending budget.

Wings Over S******d ‏@WingsScotland 1h1 hour ago .@afneil @kenwot5 We're even, then. So how about you answer the questions? You wouldn't tolerate a guest evading them like you're doing.

He can't.

The starred out bit isn't a swear word. Just a gentleman's nether region things.